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1. Another post related to this topic is here:

   http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2015/05/questions-for-seventh-day-adventists.html

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2. An SDA argued that 1 Thess 4:17 shows that Paul was errant by the same standard that I applied above to EGW. His argument was based on 1 Thess 4:17:

   Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

   Supposedly this verse proves that Paul taught, under inspiration, that he would be alive until the second coming. Since he was not, therefore all the false prophecies by Ellen White, such as those above, can be excused or explained away. However, this SDA argument is very poor.

   First, I must remark that it is sad that anyone who professes to be a Christian, as the SDAs profess Christianity, would attempt to prove Scripture errant in order to defend someone else, namely, their allegedly inspired prophetess Ellen G. White.

   1.) The argument from 1 Thess 4:17 proves too much. If one really must press the "we which are alive and remain" to mean that Paul was asserting that he would, without doubt, be alive until Christ's second coming, then he would also be "proving" that not a single living member of the Thessalonian congregation would die before Christ's coming. After all, if the "we" means Paul knew that he would not die, then he also would know that not a single member of the audience of the epistle would die either.

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3. 2.) There are uses of "we" in Scripture that clearly explain 1 Thess 4:17 without any proof of errancy. "We" in Scripture does not always have to include the speaker, just as in modern English if I say "if we do not repent of the heresies of Seventh-Day Adventism, we will be damned" I am not including myself, as I am not an SDA. For example, Romans 1:5: “By whom we have received grace and apostleship [cf. Acts 1:25; 1 Corinthians 9:2; Galatians 2:8].” The church at Rome was not composed of apostles. 1 Corinthians 10:22: “Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?” Paul was not having fellowship with devils and provoking the Lord to jealousy (v. 20-21)—only segments of his audience were. 1 Corinthians 11:31: “For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.” This seems to be something his audience was doing; Paul was not sickly and dying from taking the Lord’s Supper unworthily. Hebrews 2:1: “Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.” Paul was not going to let slip what he had heard about the gospel and go back to Judaism. Hebrews 2:3: “How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;” Paul was not including himself in the “we” who would be damned for neglecting the great salvation. Other examples in the rest of Scripture are found of a similar use of we; e. g., in Acts 2:8, “And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?” (Acts 2:8), the people hearing the preaching at Pentecost did not all have the same native tongue, nor were they all from the same country. Daniel Wallace supports the possibility of the Greek first person pronoun being “used in an exclusive way . . . [meaning] ‘others, but not myself’” (pg. 391, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics).

   Thus, 1 Thess 4:17 by no means justifies the egregious false prophecies of Ellen G. White. Re-read the false prophecies listed above. They are wildly beyond anything anyone could even pretend to get from 1 Thess 4:17.

   Scripture is inerrant, and Ellen White is errant. My SDA friend, you should recognize that what was written to EGW's son was true:

   “[T]here are serious errors in our authorized books . . . but we let . . . [t]he people and our average ministers . . . go on year after year asserting things we know to be untrue. . . . [W]e are betraying our trust and deceiving the ministers and the people. . . . [W]hat amounts to deception . . . has been practiced in making some of her [Ellen White’s] books.” [Letter of W. W. Prescott to W. C. White, April 6, 1915. Prescott was the founder of two SDA colleges, the president of three, and an SDA General Conference Vice President. W. C. White was Ellen White’s son.]

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4. An SDA told me that all prophecies are conditional; therefore, so it seems, EGW's false prophecies are not really false. However, there is no verse anywhere that says that all prophecies are conditional. There are many prophecies that are absolutely unconditional–for instance, the day and hour of Christ's return has been eternally decreed by the Father, so it could not have been in 1844 but then gotten postponed over and over again. Christ's resurrection was prophesied but was hardly conditional. That the gates of hell will not prevail against the church is not conditional–it is certain, a promise by God. I can imagine what Hezekiah would have thought if Isaiah had prophecied that Assyria would not take Jerusalem but then told Hezekiah that his prophecy was conditional so maybe they would. I could go on in this regard, but the fact is that EGW made clear false prophecies and there is not a jot or tittle like such a thing in the Bible, God's actual Word.

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5. An SDA wrote to me and claimed that the failures in EGW’s prophecies documented in the part of the post here:

   https://faithsaves.net/seventh-day-adventist/

   that related to this topic were not really false because they were allegedly conditional. He cited Jonah’s proclamation about the destruction of Nineveh as evidence. I directed him to respond here if he wished to. I have some questions.

   1.) The Ninevites, the immediate audience that Jonah was preaching to, understood that repentance would prevent the judgment falling on them. Is there CONTEMPORARY evidence from those who HEARD Mrs. White’s prophecies and believed she was a prophetess that her predictions were considered just possible and conditional, or is that an escape device made after the fact to explain why the prophecies failed?

   How do you know that when the book of Jonah records: “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown” that this is not a summary of Jonah’s preaching, which could have included more information, including that the judgment was conditional upon repentance? How do you know he said absolutely nothing else the whole time he was in Nineveh, and just kept saying those specific words over and over again like a broken record?

   2.) Why did Mrs. White’s own son and other SDA leaders admit that there was deception in her books but try to keep those facts under wraps?

   3.) What is the POSITIVE evidence Mrs. White gave us inspired writings 100 times as large as the entire Bible? Shouldn’t she do miracles at least 100 times as good as Isaiah making the sun go backwards, the Apostles raising the dead, etc.? Did she have anything even close to apostolic sign gifts?

   Thanks.

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6. The SDA responded to my questions above by saying he was not interested in what Ellen White taught, but in what the Bible taught. He claimed his beliefs came from the Bible alone. That brings up the following questions.

   1.) If she is a true prophetess, who is giving inspired, infallible truth from God, why aren’t you interested in what she has to say? Can God’s truth be more true than other truth from God–does God sometimes mix His truth with error? If not, then if she is a prophetess speaking God’s truth, why are you rejecting 99% of what God has revealed to focus only one 1% of what He has revealed, the Bible?

   2.) If she is not giving inspired truth, why do a huge percentage of SDAs claim that she is? Do you try to stop them, warning them that Ellen White was just a nice lady the way that Mrs. Jane Doe is who is sitting in the pew behind you?

   3.) Why did you first write me various things defending her from making false prophecies, and only after I asked you the questions in my previous response say that you weren’t interested in Mrs. White?

   4.) Does your lack of response indicate that the positive case for her being a prophetess is extremely weak–far weaker than it is for Christ being God’s ultimate Prophet or for the Apostles with their manifold signs and wonders? If you truly don’t care if she is a true or a false prophet, this question has an easy answer.

   5.) Did you fail to provide any contemporary evidence for Mrs. White’s failed predictions about the end of the world being conditional because this claim is indeed just a rescuing device modern SDAs employ to attempt to justify EGW’s prophetic status?

   6.) Do you agree with Mrs. White’s son and other early Adventist leaders that there is deception and falsehood in her writings? If you really don’t care what she said, it should be easy to just admit the facts–right?

   Thanks.

   Reply