I have the youtube app on my phone, which feeds me what it thinks I want to watch. Toward the top of the offerings today as I ate my lunch was a post by Wretched, entitled, “John MacArthur: Your pastor has NO authority over you.” Todd Friel played a clip from a Q and A, where a lady asked MacArthur whether pastors have authority in a church: “To what extent a member of a church is required to obey his pastor, how much authority does a pastor have in the lives of his congregants?”
MacArthur answers: “Um. None. No authority. Um. I have no authority in this church personally. . . . I have no authority. My position doesn’t give me any authority.” Friel talks about it a little, remarking that it demonstrated humility. If it isn’t true, it isn’t humble. He continued. “Only the Word of God has authority. Christ is the Head of the church, and He mediates His rules through His Word. I have no authority. I have no authority beyond the scripture. I cannot exceed what is written.” Anyway, here is the clip.
I thought it would be worth thinking about. I would be fine having no authority as a pastor, if scripture taught that I have no authority. I agree with MacArthur that I don’t have authority that exceeds scripture, although I believe that MacArthur and others like him often misuse 1 Corinthians 4:6 and also in a convenient manner. The exact quote follows: “that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.” When judging men, we should not hold men to a standard more strict or greater than what scripture says. Paul warned against that.
Later Friel, as you listen, applied the same teaching of MacArthur, that parents do not have authority either, just from scripture. What’s the problem? Is there pastoral authority? Elder rule? Parental authority? Related to what MacArthur said about 1 Corinthians 4:6, we are not to add to scripture, but we also are not to take away. Friel was joking, I think, but he called the teaching of MacArthur “kooky.” It is kooky. Of course, pastors have authority. I’m sure some church members are glad to hear that pastors have “no authority,” but is that what scripture teaches? No. Pastoral authority is taught in the Bible. Here are some of the places:
Hebrews 13:7, “Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.”
Hebrews 13:17, “Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.”
1 Thessalonians 5:12, “And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you.”
1 Timothy 5:17, “Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour,, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.”
Titus 2:15, “These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
You read, “rule over you,” “obey them,” “over you,” “elders that rule,” and “speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority.” Those are some plain places that reveal pastoral authority, but there are others, including those that use the term “bishop” or “overseer” (Acts 20:28, Philip 1:1, 1 Tim 3:2). Other principles apply that imply pastoral authority. Women can’t rule in the church (1 Corinthians 14:29-35, 1 Timothy 2:11-15), but what difference does that make if no one rules in the church? Pastors must exert authority. That is clear. In 1 Timothy 4:11, Paul told Timothy, “These things command.” In Revelation 2-3, the messengers to the churches are in the Lord’s right hand, which is symbolic of authority. These are men with authority in these churches. A way that Jesus rules through the churches is through an under shepherd (1 Peter 5:4).
Scripture also teaches congregational authority. The pastor is also under the authority of the church and he must fit into the body like a church member, but he has a separate, God-given authority to use in the church. Pastors do not have authority to expect something unscriptural. This fits into Peter’s words in Acts 5:29, “We ought to obey God rather than men.” Anything that contradicts scripture cannot be required by a pastor of the members of the church. However, many ways that a church functions require authority from a pastor in areas that are not in scripture, which belies the “beyond what is written” interpretation of MacArthur.
Scripture does not say when to meet. It does not say how to take up an offering. For a wedding, the pastor might give a number of commands. Someone needs to be in charge. If he says, stop talking, does he have that authority? Yes. Scripture does not say what hymns to sing. It does not instruct on what teachers are to teach in smaller groups. It does not tell where to evangelize. Many of the applications of scripture require pastoral leadership, which is why Paul commanded in 1 Corinthians 11:1 (literally), imitate me. Do what I do in areas of liberty (1 Corinthians 6-10). Even though Corinth had liberty to do them, they were still required to imitate Paul.
It’s hot on a Sunday morning. No air conditioning here in California. Just a ceiling fan and some floor fans. I say, “Open windows.” What verse do I use? It’s cold outside, a church member opens windows. I tell him, “Close those, it’s too cold.” What verse? He argues with me, tells me I have no authority. Is he wrong? Yes, he’s wrong.
Friel relates this to ruling a house, even as Paul taught Timothy to rule his own house well (1 Timothy 3:5). Ruling a house might require a bed time. It might mean eating all your vegetables. Dad could say, go mow the lawn. Dad has authority in the home and this compared to pastoring or ruling in a church. Parents have authority, so anything they tell their children to do, except to disobey scripture, they have that authority. It doesn’t have to be something from the Bible. Why? Because God gives authority to parents. He also gives authority to a pastor, a qualified pastor. That’s an important reason why he needs to be qualified, because he is being given that authority, due to those qualifications among other reasons.
I would be surprised if many agreed with MacArthur in his no authority teaching. Scripture teaches pastoral authority.
I'm not going to print his comment, but George says that something akin to my example of opening or closing windows is a dictatorship. Something totalitarian. If women are shivering in the service, no one can tell someone to close the windows, for fear that someone will think he's authoritarian. Does George have a point? If it's burning inside, and I can see that from my vantage point, and I take charge of the windows being opened, does that need to go to church vote?
I agree. The Lord Jesus Christ, the Chief Shepherd, and He is called the Chief Shepherd, so He is not the only Shepherd, gave authority to pastors, so they could do their job. It is so they can do their job though, as I am asserting. Thanks.
In scripture, the rebellion against authority itself is as great a problem, and this is the society we live in, where men scramble to show how against authority they are. It is an effeminate trait.
Your comment reminds me of what I hear about scripture from the lost very often. Was the Bible written by God or men? Inspiration is confluent, the fact that men wrote scripture doesn't mean that it isn't God's Word. They are the Words of John and of God, because God used men to write it.
Church authority is the same. Christ is the Authority, yes, but He has put men in charge. You shouldn't be against that if you are with Jesus Christ. He gave the keys to Peter, because He wanted Peter to lead, right? That's how Jesus chooses to lead, is through men.
1 Peter calls Jesus the Chief Shepherd. Why? Because there are undershepherds. They are being called Shepherds. The epistles are the Words of Christ (John 16:13), so Christ revealed His Words to Paul in the pastoral epistle when he said "with all authority" to Titus. You are misrepresenting the NT and Christ with your statement.
I am a missionary living in a "closed country" in the east. One of my favorite things to do when we are out of country (for safety in communicating) is reading your blog. While I don't agree with everything you say, I benefit much from both your teaching and Bro. Ross's.
Now to the point of the post..
Because of the restrictions we work under and differences in culture, I have had to study the Bible deeply to see what it actually says vs. what I learned in Bible college and observed in America. For example, we can't have a building, meet in large numbers, or advertise publicly.
One of the problems that I see in America is the word "Pastor." As you acknowledged in another of your articles, pastor is only used once in the New Testament. The Bible words are bishop and elder. We don't use the Bible terms, so that creates confusion.
The other problem I see with the term pastor comes from the fact that American churches are more like corporations than the church in the Bible. The American model for a "pastor" is that of a CEO of a business. The "pastor" then has to make sure that all of the responsibilities are cared for (reports for IRS, maintaining the building…), instead of labouring in the word and doctrine.
I could say a lot more, but I just wanted to get this thought out there. Feel free to cut me off with scripture if I have gone "too far out on a limb."
There are other instances in the New Testament in which the bishop/elder office is described to be pastoring. Consider John 21 when Jesus told Peter to feed His lambs/sheep three times. Then I Peter 5 instructs this church office to feed the flock of God. So the idea of a pastor is mentioned more than once in the New Testament. And it doesn't contradict the message of John 10, Christ being the good Shepherd. The pastor of a church is an under-shepherd of Christ, and the pastor must labor to represent Christ's words (the voice of the Shepherd) and then to lead a church to follow the Shepherd.
Glad you're reading. Even though the title, "pastor," is good and fine, I agree with everything else you're saying. The term "bishop," episkopos, overseer, carries with it authority in itself. One is overseeing for what purpose? If he has authority, he oversees, and he sees someone who has gone astray, does he use authority, or does he just keep seeing, watching, saying nothing. Overseeing implies authority. I also agree with David.
The cultural differences are interesting to the practice of scripture. I believe that culture does impact. In the Bible we see that we have to beware of culture.
I'm not going to print his comment, but George says that something akin to my example of opening or closing windows is a dictatorship. Something totalitarian. If women are shivering in the service, no one can tell someone to close the windows, for fear that someone will think he's authoritarian. Does George have a point? If it's burning inside, and I can see that from my vantage point, and I take charge of the windows being opened, does that need to go to church vote?
George sounds like an idiot. George cannot tell anyone to do anything if that is his thinking.
But yes pastors do have authority in God's church. The shepherd has authority over the sheep for crying out loud!
Except that Christ is the shepherd, not the pastor. The pastor is a sheep like the rest of the flock.
Leroy,
I agree. The Lord Jesus Christ, the Chief Shepherd, and He is called the Chief Shepherd, so He is not the only Shepherd, gave authority to pastors, so they could do their job. It is so they can do their job though, as I am asserting. Thanks.
In scripture, the rebellion against authority itself is as great a problem, and this is the society we live in, where men scramble to show how against authority they are. It is an effeminate trait.
David,
Your comment reminds me of what I hear about scripture from the lost very often. Was the Bible written by God or men? Inspiration is confluent, the fact that men wrote scripture doesn't mean that it isn't God's Word. They are the Words of John and of God, because God used men to write it.
Church authority is the same. Christ is the Authority, yes, but He has put men in charge. You shouldn't be against that if you are with Jesus Christ. He gave the keys to Peter, because He wanted Peter to lead, right? That's how Jesus chooses to lead, is through men.
1 Peter calls Jesus the Chief Shepherd. Why? Because there are undershepherds. They are being called Shepherds. The epistles are the Words of Christ (John 16:13), so Christ revealed His Words to Paul in the pastoral epistle when he said "with all authority" to Titus. You are misrepresenting the NT and Christ with your statement.
I am a missionary living in a "closed country" in the east. One of my favorite things to do when we are out of country (for safety in communicating) is reading your blog. While I don't agree with everything you say, I benefit much from both your teaching and Bro. Ross's.
Now to the point of the post..
Because of the restrictions we work under and differences in culture, I have had to study the Bible deeply to see what it actually says vs. what I learned in Bible college and observed in America. For example, we can't have a building, meet in large numbers, or advertise publicly.
One of the problems that I see in America is the word "Pastor." As you acknowledged in another of your articles, pastor is only used once in the New Testament. The Bible words are bishop and elder. We don't use the Bible terms, so that creates confusion.
The other problem I see with the term pastor comes from the fact that American churches are more like corporations than the church in the Bible. The American model for a "pastor" is that of a CEO of a business. The "pastor" then has to make sure that all of the responsibilities are cared for (reports for IRS, maintaining the building…), instead of labouring in the word and doctrine.
I could say a lot more, but I just wanted to get this thought out there. Feel free to cut me off with scripture if I have gone "too far out on a limb."
Name withheld due to country that I am serving in
There are other instances in the New Testament in which the bishop/elder office is described to be pastoring. Consider John 21 when Jesus told Peter to feed His lambs/sheep three times. Then I Peter 5 instructs this church office to feed the flock of God. So the idea of a pastor is mentioned more than once in the New Testament. And it doesn't contradict the message of John 10, Christ being the good Shepherd. The pastor of a church is an under-shepherd of Christ, and the pastor must labor to represent Christ's words (the voice of the Shepherd) and then to lead a church to follow the Shepherd.
Anonymous,
Glad you're reading. Even though the title, "pastor," is good and fine, I agree with everything else you're saying. The term "bishop," episkopos, overseer, carries with it authority in itself. One is overseeing for what purpose? If he has authority, he oversees, and he sees someone who has gone astray, does he use authority, or does he just keep seeing, watching, saying nothing. Overseeing implies authority. I also agree with David.
The cultural differences are interesting to the practice of scripture. I believe that culture does impact. In the Bible we see that we have to beware of culture.
Thanks for reading and coming by.