Baptism Debate Questions Answered: The Jacoby / Ross debate questions we ran out of time before answering, part 1 of 2
In my recent debate with Dr. Douglas Jacoby on the topic of whether faith before baptism is the moment of the new birth (I argued yes, he argued no) or baptism after faith is the moment of the new birth (I argued no, he argued yes), we had a question and answer session at the end of part two of our discussion. There were numbers of questions that came in that we did not have time to answer during the debate. I have acquired copies of the questions and have answered them below, and have also invited Dr. Jacoby to answer them in the comment section. I would encourage readers to consider both of our responses to the questions. Our answers will be relatively brief because of the number of the questions, but since we have the privilege of responding in writing we are able to be a bit more technical than is possible answering off the cuff. Some of the questions below were specifically directed to one or the other speaker, but I have answered all of them. This blog post will answer #1-7, and, Lord willing, questions #8-14 will be answered next Friday–click here for part 2’s questions and answers.
If you did not already watch the debate, you can do so on YouTube by clicking here or by watching the embedded videos below. The questions we did not get to answer commence after the videos.
Debate part 1, “We are born again before baptism” (Ross affirmative, Jacoby negative):
Debate part 2, “We are born again in baptism” (Ross negative, Jacoby affirmative):
Questions from the debates we did not get to answer in the Q & A session. My answers are TR (Thomas Ross) followed by his answers with a DJ (Douglas Jacoby). In the second post we will have answers for questions #8-14.
1.) Apollos was a believer and yet Priscilla and Aquila noted through the Holy Spirit that he only knew the baptism of John why was that critical and why did they need to teach him further if it wasn’t for the fact that he needed to learn about the baptism into Christ if belief was enough why did he need further teaching.
TR (Thomas Ross): Acts 18:24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. 25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. 26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly. 27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: 28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.
Note that the text NEVER says that Apollos was lost and only became saved when he was baptized. Note as well that Apollos never actually was rebaptized—John’s baptism was sufficient for becoming united to the disciples in the church. Acts 18:24-28 actually refutes baptism for justification.
In Acts 19:1-7 there is a contrast; the people there were non-Trinitarian. They did not believe in the Trinity, and so were unsaved (John 17:3), for they had never even heard of the Holy Spirit (19:2), although John preached about Him (Matthew 3:11). Their spurious discipleship is indicated by the fact that the plural word “disciples,” mathetai, is nonarticular in 19:1—unlike every single one of the 25 other references in the book of Acts to the word (1:15; 6:1-2, 7; 9:1, 19, 26, 38; 11:26, 29; 14:20, 22, 28; 15:10; 18:23, 27; 19:1, 9, 30; 20:7, 30; 21:4, 16). Paul does not tell these “disciples” that John’s baptism has passed away and Christian baptism has now been inaugurated; he tells them what John the Baptist really said (19:4), upon which they believed John’s message as expounded by Paul and submitted themselves to baptism (19:5-7).
Of course, this does not mean that Apollos did not need further teaching. Of course he does need further teaching.
DJ (Douglas Jacoby): It seems Apollos (like the disciples in Acts 19) was not up to date on some important developments. After Jesus ascended, the Spirit (and the new birth) became available (Acts 2:30, 33; John 7:38-39). That is, the indwelling Spirit was not available until Pentecost (Acts 2:38). In short, John’s baptism was not the same thing as Christian baptism (baptism in Jesus’ name), even though John directed people to Jesus.
2.) Were the apostles saved before Pentecost?
TR: Yes, the Apostles were saved before Pentecost, the same way as in these texts:
Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.
DJ: Jesus told them (before Pentecost), “You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you” (John 15:3). Keep in mind that the apostles were Jewish; as long as they were faithful to the (old) covenant, they were right with God. It is unreasonable, in my opinion, to hold that they needed to become “lost” so that they could become saved through Christ. A number of them submitted to John’s baptism. The Spirit came on them at Pentecost (Acts 2), though some interpreters take the Jesus’s prophetic action in John 20:22-23 to be the moment they received the Spirit.
Whatever was the unique case with the apostles, they told the rest of us that we would receive Spirit once we repented and were baptized (Acts 2:38). But back to your question: the N.T. never says the apostles were baptized at Pentecost (or later). One may speculate, but this remains an open matter.
3.) Are the commands “repent” and “be baptized” directed to the same audience in Acts 2:38?
TR: The grammatical structure of Acts 2:38 connects the receipt of the Holy Spirit (and thus the new birth “of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8) and its associated receipt of eternal life) with repentance, not baptism. The section of the verse in question could be diagrammed as follows:
Repent (2nd person plural aorist imperative)
be baptized (3rd person singular aorist imperative)
every one (nominative singular adjective)
in (epi) the name of Jesus Christ
for (eis) the remission of sins
ye shall receive (2nd person future indicative) . . . the Holy Ghost
Both the command to repent and the promised receipt of the Holy Spirit are in the second person (i. e, “Repent [ye]” and “ye shall receive”). The command to be baptized is in the third person singular, as is the adjective “every one” (hekastos). Peter commands the whole crowd to repent and promises those who do the gift of the Holy Ghost (cf. Acts 10:47; 15:8). The call to baptism was only for the “every one of you” that had already repented, received the Holy Ghost, and become the children of God. The “be baptized every one of you” section of the verse is parenthetical to the command to repent and its associated promise of the Spirit. Parenthetical statements, including those parallel in structure to Acts 2:38, are found throughout Scripture. The grammar of Acts 2:38 requires the connection “Repent ye, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost,” not “Be each one baptized, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” The connection in Acts 2:38 between the receipt of the Holy Spirit and repentance, rather than baptism, overthrows the assertions of baptismal regenerations on the verse.
DJ: Yes. This is the audience out of whom some 3000 persons—this is a male-only count, as in Acts 4:4, Matt 14:21, etc.—accepted the message and were baptized. Their response is recorded in v.41.
Some note that “repent” is a second person plural aorist imperative, while “be baptized” is a third person singular aorist imperative, and conclude only repentance is connected with forgiveness of sins. But this doesn’t work. Just as in John 7:53, the plural followed by the singular is used for emphasis.
4.) In Acts 2:38, Peter says repent and be baptized…and you will receive the Holy Spirit.
If we are not children of God until we receive the Holy Spirit, then how is it that we are saved before baptism at the point of faith?
It would strongly seem that Peter is saying repent and be baptized and then you will receive the Holy Spirit.
TR: Please see the discussion in question #3. Acts 2:38 teaches that the Holy Spirit is received at the moment of faith before baptism. Peter also clearly affirmed elsewhere in Acts that at the moment of repentant faith one receives the Spirit and eternal life. As taught in all the rest of the New Testament, Peter believed that one “receive[s] the promise of the Spirit through faith” (Galatians 3:14), not by baptism. In Acts 10:34-48, just as on the day of Pentecost (11:15, 17), eternal life, and the gift of the Holy Spirit, was received at the moment of repentant faith (11:18; 10:43-48) and before baptism. Peter explicitly stated that God “purif[ied] [the] hearts by faith” (Acts 15:9) of those given eternal life in Acts 2 and 10, when they “heard the word of the gospel, and believe[d]” (15:7, cf. v. 11), at which time they received the Holy Spirit (15:7-9). Furthermore, in the rest of the book of Acts, Peter proclaimed justification by repentant faith alone. He preached, “Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out” (Acts 3:19). He associated “repentance . . . and forgiveness of sins” (Acts 5:31). He commanded men to “repent . . . and . . . be forgiven” (Acts 8:22). In Acts 10:43, he preached that “through [Christ’s] name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.” If Peter taught forgiveness by baptism in Acts 2:38, why did he teach justification by repentant faith, as the other apostles did (Acts 13:39; 16:31), in all the rest of Acts? Did he change his mind in Acts 10-11 and 15, and, twice, inform the very church at Jerusalem that included numerous converts from his sermon in Acts 2 that they were saved by faith, not by baptism? Did the entire Jerusalem church agree with Peter’s new teaching and “glorify God” (11:18) for it, including those that were supposedly baptized in order to receive the remission of sins on that first Pentecost? The allegation that Acts 2:38 conditions forgiveness of sins on baptism ignores the clear statements of Peter about what happened on that day, his preaching of the gospel everywhere else in the book, and the numerous affirmations of salvation by repentant faith alone by others in Acts.
DJ: Exactly right! It wouldn’t make sense that we’d receive the Holy Spirit (through faith), only to have to later be baptized to receive the Spirit. Salvation isn’t split into sections.
Religious leaders have caused needless confusion by teaching salvation by faith alone, before we have obeyed Peter’s simple command. “Faith alone” is a relatively recent teaching—dating only to the 16th century Reformation—an overreaction to the “priestcraft” and “works righteousness” of the medieval church. (See James’s balanced treatment of works in James 2:14-26.) As Peter further noted, God gives the Holy Spirit “to those who obey him” (Acts 5:32). Peter’s hearers on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2, convicted by the gospel message, asked a simple question: “What shall we do?” To which the apostle offered a simple answer: “Repent and be baptized.”
We become God’s children when we receive his Holy Spirit (Gal 3:26-27; 4:6; Rom 8:9; Acts 2:38). Acts 2:38 doesn’t contradict John 3:5; baptism is the occasion on which we are saved by faith.
5.) Clearly the word baptism is not always referring to water baptism. “John indeed baptized with water, but…” so if we, in unity of the Spirit believe in “one Lord, one faith, one Baptism”, then which baptism is it?
TR: The “one baptism” in Ephesians 4:5 is being dipped in water with the authority of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. That neither proves nor disproves the idea that baptism is the point at which one is forgiven of his sin; 1 Corinthians also connects unity in the church with the Lord’s Supper, but Dr. Jacoby would agree that people are not unforgiven until they first partake of the Supper.
Please see https://faithsaves.net/Spirit-baptism/ for an exposition of the Biblical teaching on Spirit baptism.
DJ: The significant difference between the baptism of John and the baptism of Christ is the gift of the Holy Spirit. Both baptisms involved water, yet only baptism in Jesus’ name confers the Spirit. Most Christians I know distinguish the “Holy Spirit baptism” from regular water baptism. I am not so sure this distinction is valid, especially in light of verses like 1 Cor 12:13.
Eph 4:5 isn’t the only baptism verse in Ephesians. 5:14 and 5:26 are two more. As correctly noted by Baptist scholar George Beasley-Murray, baptism is more than simply an initiation ceremony. Something actually happens when a man or woman is baptized.
6.) You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!
QUESTION; Did the demons repent at the time they believed if faith/repentance are the same?
TR: James 2 is talking about a kind of “faith” that does not result in works. Saving faith, as I explained in my first speech, is not just mental assent to facts (like the demons have) but entrusting oneself wholeheartedly to Christ as God, Lord, and Savior. James 2 both denies that simple mental assent is saving faith (James 2:19) and employs Abraham as a pattern of the New Testament Christian’s saving faith: “And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God” (James 2:23). People are through the instrumentality of the (unbaptized) Abraham and are immediately accounted righteous at the point of faith, like Abraham was. Mere “belief” like the devils have is not genuine faith.
DJ: If you mean that faith and repentance are the same, they are not. It’s clear the demons don’t have saving faith. If they did, they would repent.
7.) In 1 Corinthians 1:14, if baptism is so vital, why does Paul say he thanked God that he baptized none of them, and why does he contrast that with the gospel, if the gospel apparently to you [Dr. Jacoby] includes baptism?
TR: 1 Corinthians excludes baptism from Paul’s gospel. The apostle defines the message of salvation in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 as:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)
“[T]he gospel . . . [is that] by which also ye are saved” (v. 1-2), and those who “received” it “believed” (v. 2). It was “preach[ed], and . . . believed” (v. 11) in “faith” (v. 14, 17). While faith is mentioned, Paul defines the gospel without any reference to baptism; it is, therefore, not part of the gospel, and is not a prerequisite to justification. Paul confirms in 1 Corinthians 1:17 what he taught by omission in 1 Corinthians fifteen, stating, “Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel” (cf. Acts 26, Galatians 1:11-16). He specifically contrasts the gospel, which saves from sin (15:2, cf. 4:15), and baptism, which does not. Paul also thanks God that he did not baptize people (1:14) and does not remember if he baptized others (1:16). How strange these assertions would be were baptism essential to obtain forgiveness! Their strangeness is not solved simply by recognizing that the church at Corinth was not united but had factions. Furthermore, Paul tells the church that “though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel” (1 Corinthians 4:15). Paul was the one through whom the church had been born again—but he had baptized only a tiny fraction of the membership (1:14-17). In 1 Corinthians, Paul states that the gospel saves (15:2, 4:15). He also excludes baptism from the gospel (15:1-4; 1:17) and informs the members of the Corinthian church that he was the means through which they had been born again, although he had not baptized them (4:15, 1:14-17). Furthermore, Paul affirms that on the road to Damascus, when he saw the risen Christ, he was “born” again (1 Corinthians 15:8), although yet unbaptized. Paul’s statements about baptism and the gospel in 1 Corinthians are highly problematic for the idea that baptism is the point of forgiveness.
DJ: Now Paul doesn’t say he baptized none of the Corinthians, only that he didn’t remember all those he baptized. Which was just as well, because anyone can baptize, but only one could die for our sins. Factions had been forming among the Corinthians (1 Cor 1:10-13; 3:3-6). People were identifying with human leaders instead of with Christ. Baptism is in the name of Christ—not the name of Paul or Apollos. “Was Paul crucified for you?” (1:13) suggests we are baptized into the one who crucified for us. (Rom 6:3-4 shows us that baptism is a participation in the death of Christ.)
Now the gospel doesn’t include baptism, nor does it even include faith. That would be to confuse the gospel with our response to the gospel. The Ethiopian responded to the good news about Jesus (Acts 8:36) by being baptized (Acts 8:38), so Philip, the person who instructed him, clearly included baptism in his message about Jesus. Yet again, while repentance and baptism are our response to the saving message, these actions are not themselves part of the gospel.
If all we’re doing in evangelism is counting souls we have won, we’re working at cross-purposes to the gospel; we’re leading people away from the Lord and towards mere humans. When Paul says he wasn’t sent to baptize, I understand him to be saying he wasn’t sent primarily to baptize. Of course he baptized! All the apostles did. It’s like John 12:47-48. Did Jesus come to judge the world? His primary purpose was a rescue mission. Yet he did come to judge (John 9:39). Reading John too quickly, one might finds a contradiction (Jesus came to judge; he didn’t come to judge). One more example: As a Christian teacher, my goal is not merely to publish books. My goal is to publish the truth—to cause others to think and rethink the faith. Book-writing is part of that, but I would be horrified if others measured their spirituality by how many of my books they had read! The emphasis must remain on Christ. It’s a matter of emphasis and perspective.
Please check back next Friday for the last seven questions and answers. You are encouraged to interact with this information in the comment section below, where we also can interact with each other’s answers.
–TDR
Eternal security debate: Douglas Jacoby & Thomas Ross, now live!
As regular readers of this blog likely know, I had the privilege of engaging in a two-part debate with Dr. Douglas Jacoby, a minister in the denomination that calls itself the “church of Christ” and was started by Alexander Campbell and his associates in the 1800s, last month over the topic of whether baptism is the moment of the new birth (the Bible says “no,” John 3:16, and so did I, while his denomination says “yes.”). We broadcast that debate, which took place on Saturday, May 9, on livestream. Early on Sunday May 10 we debated the question of eternal security. Our eternal security debate, in which I was in the affirmative, was over the specific topic: “Those truly born again can never finally and eternally perish.” This debate was not broadcast on livestream, so you can only see it by clicking on the video below or watching it on YouTube by clicking here:
I believe that the debate went well and the truth of eternal security was clearly presented and defended by God’s grace and for His glory alone. A number of the arguments I made were identical to those made in the Kent Brandenburg / Larry Hafley debate over eternal security, and Dr. Jacoby was no more successful refuting them than Mr. Hafley had been (although Dr. Jacoby is far more polite and does not employ the smoke-and-mirrors tactics and antics of Mr. Hafley).
If you believe in eternal security–as you should–watching the debate should strengthen your ability to confess and defend the faith once and for all delivered to the saints. If you do not believe in eternal security, you should watch this debate and seriously consider if God requires that you believe this crucial doctrine closely related to the core of the gospel.
Many thanks to those who prayed for the debate, helped with the debate preparation, and equipped the saints so that a serious defense of the faith was possible.
If you believe the video glorifies God, please feel free to “like” it on YouTube and post a comment. Responding to comments by anti-eternal security people and pro-baptism-as-the-moment-of-salvation people would also be appreciated, as I may not have time to respond myself.
–TDR
Jacoby / Ross Debate part 2, “We are Born Again In Baptism,” is now live!
The second half of my debate with Dr. Douglas Jacoby over baptism is now live! In the first half, “We are born again before baptism,” I was in the affirmative; the second half, “We are born again in baptism,” where Dr. Jacoby was in the affirmative and I was in the negative, is now also available. You can watch the second half of debate on YouTube by clicking here or you can watch it in the embedded video below.
Please feel free to “like” the video on YouTube and comment on it there was well as here on the blog.
While, of course, I am biased in favor of my position, I believe the truth was very clear in the two debates.
The book Heaven Only for the Baptized? The Gospel of Christ vs. Baptismal Regeneration, which contains the large majority of arguments I employed in the debates, is available on my website here and can also be purchased inexpensively for an Amazon Kindle. I want to get a physical book version in print in the relatively near future.
Many thanks to God for His assistance in the debate, and great gratitude as well to those who helped with the slides, with the video editing and publishing, and so on. I am also thankful that Dr. Jacoby was willing to defend his position in a public forum like this.
If you believe that debates like this fit the Biblical pattern in Acts and are useful for glorifying God and advancing His kingdom, and you would be interested in sponsoring one, please contact me.
–TDR
Newly formatted Gospel tracts
I wanted to let What is Truth? readers know about the newly formatted gospel tracts below. The content is very similar to the presentation on the Internet here. I would commend them to you for use in your church.
The first one below, formatted courtesy of Headwaters Baptist Church, looks like this (side #1):
and can be downloaded and personalized for your church with the other tracts at the All Content page on my website here or separately by clicking here.
Headwaters Baptist Church get the tract printed through the Bethel Baptist Print Ministry. a printing service run by an independent Baptist church.
A version of this tract in Tagalog and English (the Tagalog portion is more brief than the English, but still relatively extensive) that looks like the following (side #1):
This tract can be downloaded and personalized as well at the All Content page here; a PDF can be downloaded by clicking here, and a publisher document that can be edited and personalized for your church can be downloaded by clicking here. My thanks to Mount Zion Baptist Missions, a faithful independent Baptist work in the Philippines, for the Tagalog translation and the excellent formatting.
May the Lord use these tracts for the glorification of His magnificent grace in saving lost sinners.
–TDR
Douglas Jacoby / Thomas Ross Debate part 1, “We are Born Again Before Baptism,” is now live!
As readers of this blog may know, I had the privilege of debating Dr. Douglas Jacoby on the topics:
“We are born again before baptism” (Ross affirmative, Jacoby negative)
and:
“We are born again in baptism” (Jacoby affirmative, Ross negative)
a number of days ago. The edited video is now live on the KJB1611 YouTube Channel. You can view the debate “We are born again before baptism” on YouTube by clicking here, or you can watch it below:
I would encourage you to “like” and comment on the video on YouTube here if you believe the content is of value. If you prayed for me and for God’s kingdom to be furthered through the debate, thank you very much! I believe our discussion went very well and that, through God’s grace, it was clear what the true gospel was.
–TDR
The OT books in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, and English
In conjunction with my Greek class, I put together the list below. May it be a convenient place to get this information.
The Books of the Old and New Testament in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin, in the Hebrew Bible’s book order[1]
|
Hebrew
|
Greek
|
Latin
|
English
|
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בְּרֵאשִׁית
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Γένεσις
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Genesis
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Genesis
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וְאֵלֶּה שְׁמוֹת
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Ἔξοδος
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Exodus
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Exodus
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וַיִּקְרָא
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Λευειτικόν
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Leviticus
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Leviticus
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וַיְדַבֵּר
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Ἀριθμοί
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Numeri
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Numbers
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אֵלֶּה הַדְּבָרִים
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Δευτερονόμιον
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Deuteronomium
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Deuteronomy
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יְהוֹשֻׁעַ
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Ἰησοῦς
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Iosue
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Joshua
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שׁוֹפְטִים
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Κριταί
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Iudices
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Judges
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שְׁמוּאֵל
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Βασιλειῶν αʹ, βʹ
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Regum 1, 2
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1, 2 Samuel
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מְלָכִים
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Βασιλειῶν γʹ, δʹ
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Regum 3, 4
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1, 2 Kings
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יְשַׁעְיָהוּ
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Ἠσαίας
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Isaias
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Isaiah
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|
יִרְמְיָהוּ
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Ἰερεμίας
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Ieremias
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Jeremiah
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יְחֶזְקֵאל
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Ἰεζεκιήλ
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Ezechiel
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Ezekiel
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הוֹשֵׁעַ
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Ὡσῆε
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Osee
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Hosea
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יוֹאֵל
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Ἰωήλ
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Ioel
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Joel
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עָמוֹס
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Ἀμώς
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Amos
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Amos
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עֹבַדְיָה
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Ἀβδιού
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Abdias
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Obadiah
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יוֹנָה
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Ἰωνᾶς
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Ionas
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Jonah
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מִיכָה
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Μιχαίας
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Michaeas
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Micah
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נַחוּם
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Ναούμ
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Nahum
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Nahum
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חֲבַקּוּק
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Ἁμβακούμ
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Habacuc
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Habakkuk
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צְפַנְיָה
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Σοφονίας
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Sophonias
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Zephaniah
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חַגַּי
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Ἁγγαῖος
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Aggaeus
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Haggai
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זְכַרְיָה
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Ζαχαρίας
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Zacharias
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Zechariah
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מַלְאָכִי
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Μαλαχίας
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Malachias
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Malachi
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תְּהִלִּים
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Ψαλμοί
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Psalmi
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Psalms
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מִשְׁלֵי
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Παροιμίαι
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Proverbia
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Proverbs
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אִיּוֹב
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Ἰώβ
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Iob
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Job
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שִׁיר הַשִּׁירִים
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ᾈσμα ᾀσμάτων
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Canticum canticorum
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Song of Solomon
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רוּת
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Ῥούθ
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Ruth
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Ruth
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אֵיכָה
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Θρῆνοι
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Lamentationes
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Lamentations
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קֹהֶלֶת
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Ἐκκλησιαστής
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Ecclesiastes
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Ecclesiastes
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|
אֶסְתֵּר
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Ἐσθήρ
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Esther
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Esther
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דָּנִיֵּאל
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Δανιήλ
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Daniel
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Daniel
|
|
עֶזְרָא
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Ἔσδρας αʹ
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Esdras 1
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Ezra
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|
[2]נְחֶמְיָה
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Ἔσδρας βʹ
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Esdras 2
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Nehemiah
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|
דִּבְרֵי־הַיָּמִים
|
Παραλειπομένων αʹ, βʹ
|
Paralipomenon 1, 2
|
1 / 2 Chronicles
|
–TDR
Livestream links for the Douglas Jacoby / Thomas Ross debate on baptism!
NOTE: The video links below are available to be watched on the KJB1611 YouTube channel. The book by Thomas Ross, Heaven Only for the Baptized? is available on Amazon.com here as an e-book; a print version is planned for the (relatively) near future. See the work online here as well (a free PDF version).
The links to the livestream of the two-part debate I am scheduled to have with Dr. Douglas Jacoby tomorrow are now available!
Part one, “We are born again before baptism,” can be livestreamed by clicking on the link below:
Part 2, “We are born again in baptism,” can be livestreamed by clicking on the link below:
Part one begins at 11:45 AM central time (USA) and part two at 3:00 PM central time (USA).
The livestream audience can email questions to:
debatequestionsfromyou at gmail dot com
and the moderator will read them and have us answer them after part two.
Please pray for God’s gospel and truth to be glorified and His kingdom furthered through the debate.
–TDR
Douglas Jacoby – Thomas Ross Debates, Baptism & Eternal Security, on Livestream, Saturday May 9 and Sunday May 10!
Note: We have had to update the times for the discussion below. Please note the corrected times below.
You can now view the debates on YouTube by clicking here.
You can now view the debates on YouTube by clicking here.
Lord willing, on Saturday May 9, at 11:45 AM, I will have the opportunity to discuss the question of whether baptism is how one is born again with Dr. Douglas Jacoby, a member of the denomination founded by Alexander Campbell that calls itself the “Church of Christ.” His website states that Dr. Jacoby “has engaged in a number of debates with well-known atheists, imams, and rabbis. Douglas is also an adjunct professor of theology at Lincoln Christian University. Since the late ’90s, Douglas has led annual tours to the biblical world. With degrees from Drew, Harvard, and Duke, Douglas has written over 30 books, recorded nearly 800 podcasts, and spoken in over 100 universities, and in over 500 cities, in 126 nations around the world.” Readers of this blog are probably more familiar with my background. We were planning to have our discussion at the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee, but everything has changed because of COVID, so at this point we are planning to record and livestream the event. You will be able to submit questions as a virtual audience to us which we can answer during the question and answer times! Please stay tuned for more details.
Also, please pray fervently that God’s truth will be glorified, His kingdom advanced, and His name magnified through the discussion. Please also pray for me as I prepare and present and for the technical details of livestreaming and recording.
Debate / Discussion Topic part 1: “We are born again before baptism.” (starting Saturday May 9, 11:45 AM Central Standard Time)
Affirm: Thomas Ross
Deny: Douglas Jacoby
How the time will go:
Brief introduction to the speakers and an explanation of the character of the debate
Opening presentation: 20/20 (minutes)
Cross-examination #1: 8/8
Second presentation/rebuttal: 10/10
Short break (c. 10 min)
Cross-examination #2: 8/8
Third presentation/rebuttal: 10/10
Concluding statement: 5/5
Break before part #2 (livestream viewers can send questions in for us to answer!)
Debate Part #2: Saturday, May 9, 2020, 3:00 PM (Central Standard Time)
Debate Topic part 2: “We are born again in baptism.”
Affirm: Douglas Jacoby
Deny: Thomas Ross
How the time will go:
Brief introduction to the speakers and an explanation of the character of the debate
Opening presentation: 20/20
Cross-examination #1: 8/8
Second presentation/rebuttal: 10/10
Short break (c. 10 min)
Cross-examination #2: 8/8
Third presentation/rebuttal: 10/10
Concluding statement: 5/5
Short break to get questions from people on livestream
Questions from people on livestream the rest of the time
On Sunday, May 10, early in the morning before Sunday worship starts, we are planning to have a somewhat shorter formatted discussion or debate over the following topic:
Debate Topic: “Those truly born again can never finally and eternally perish.”
Affirm: Thomas Ross
Deny: Douglas Jacoby
How the time will go:
Brief introduction to the speakers and an explanation of the character of the debate
Opening presentation: 15/15
Cross-examination #1: 6/6
Second presentation/rebuttal: 7/7
Short break (c. 7 min)
Cross-examination #2: 6/6
Third presentation/rebuttal: 7/7
Concluding statement: 5/5
Short break to get questions from people on livestream
Questions from people on livestream the rest of the time
The time for the Sunday part should be updated soon, Lord willing.
–TDR
Unsheathed: Muhammad’s Biography–An Accurate Presentation
Have you wanted to read an accurate biography of Muhammad, based on the original sources, and free from bias in favor of Islam? I commend to you Unsheathed: The Story of Muhammad, by Tara MacArthur (penname to avoid getting killed; click on the book name to download it). The book is a valuable work that accurate portrays the prophet of Islam’s life, based on the earliest sources. It does not gloss over the troubling and violent aspects of his life, but neither does it say only what is bad while leaving out the positive. There is also a short version of the book, both with pictures and one without pictures. Finally, there is a well done audio book of Unsheathed. What do you know about the life of one of the most influential men in history?
You can also order a physical copy of Unsheathed: The Story of Muhammad at Amazon.com or other retailers (click through one of the portals here for extra savings).
Saul/Paul’s Conversion: A Contradiction in Acts 9, 22, 26?
During my debate with Shabir Ally on the topic: “The New Testament Picture of Jesus: Is it Accurate?” Dr. Ally claimed that the accounts of the Apostle Paul’s conversion in Acts 9, 22, and 26 were contradictory. He argued that the following passages were necessarily contradictory:
“And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.” (Acts 9:7)
“And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.” (Acts 22:9)
Acts 9, Shabir Ally argued, claimed that the companions of Saul of Tarsus did not hear the voice of the risen Christ, while Acts 22, Dr. Ally claimed, affirmed that Paul’s companions did har the voice of the Lord Jesus.
Are these texts actually contradictory? Watch the video below to find out.
If you think the content is good, please feel free to comment here or on YouTube. Also, you can click here to watch “The Apostle Paul’s Conversion Narrative in Acts: Are Acts 9:7; 22:9 & 26:14 Contradictory?” on Youtube and “like” the video if you believe it has good content.
–TDR
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