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An Alcohol Story

A Man Questions Me about Alcohol

Restaurant Wants to Serve Alcohol

Our church meets in a small town right across the street from a new and popular Mexican restaurant.  My wife and I moved to Southern Indiana on February 23, 2023 to evangelize a twenty five minute radius with 70,000 people.  We want to build up a true church for its future perpetuation, starting with six attending members who are all fifty-nine and over.  The Mexican restaurant opened in September, six months before we arrived.

On our first official time of door-to-door evangelism, my wife and I went together and knocked on the front door of someone right next to our meeting place.  A man opened and after I introduced ourselves, before anything else he said to us, “So you are the church that won’t let the Mexican restaurant serve alcohol?  Why are you keeping us from having a nice beer with our dinner?”

Indiana State Law

I told him that I didn’t know what he was talking about.  Actually someone had mentioned alcohol and a restaurant to me, but I didn’t make the connection to this situation.  I didn’t apologize to this neighbor for anything anyone did.  Instead, I explained ours was a biblical position on alcohol.  Shouldn’t churches follow the Bible in their belief and practice?  Also, I knew it was Indiana law.  The state of Indiana regulated this use of alcohol.  If he wanted the law to change, he should take his complaint to his state legislator, not me.  The regulation is the following (Ind. Code § 7.1-3-21-11):

[T]he commission may not issue a permit for a premises or approve a designated refreshment area if . . . the following appl[ies]:   (1) A wall of a school or church is situated within two hundred (200) feet . . . . This section does not apply to the premises . . . if . . . the commission receives a written statement from the authorized representative of the church or school stating expressly that the church or school does not object to the issuance of the permit for the premises or approval of the designated refreshment area.

One godly member of the original six of the church earlier told the restaurant he would not write that letter.  I would not write the letter either.  He couldn’t.  I couldn’t.  Even if I believed in it, I wouldn’t do it and offend this member.  Most of all, I wouldn’t write it because it would violate scripture.  Our church would not do a thing that would disobey the Bible.

Habakkuk 2:15

I saw writing a letter giving permission to serve alcohol to violate Habakkuk 2:15:

Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also.

God Himself is giving this “Woe.”  God says, “Woe!”  People in town might pressure me or us to capitulate, but I have a responsibility to God.  When I weigh God versus alcohol drinkers or alcohol servers in town, I go with God.  It’s one thing to break one of God’s laws.  We all do.  It’s totally another to support the breaking of the laws of God and encourage their transgression.  That is not worshiping the Lord.

The Consequences of Alcohol Use

107,081 fentanyl deaths occurred in 2022 in the United States.  Much of that moves across our porous Southern border.  It is estimated that China produces 90% of that fentanyl in the United States.  The fentanyl usage I’m describing is illegal. Let that sink into your head.  As it does, consider the following about a legal substance in the United States:  alcohol.

Alcohol is known to directly kill.  Alcohol contributes to over three million deaths per year worldwide and over 140,000 a year in the United States.  About forty percent of convicted murderers used alcohol before or during the crime.  Alcohol related to about two-thirds of violent acts on current or former spouses or partners.  In 2021,13,384 people died in alcohol-impaired driving traffic deaths.  Offenders under the influence of alcohol commit 37% of sexual assaults and rapes.  Four out of ten violent victimizations involve alcohol use.

Alcohol dependence very often leads to a devastating downward financial spiral.  It causes eviction notices, delinquent bills, excessive court fees, diminished credit scores, and lost jobs.  Many lose their family and custody of their children.  Even if it doesn’t effect financial ruin, it very often brings financial strain and risk.

I’ve been to many social events that served alcohol.  Alcohol caused bad behavior every time.  Not once did it not make it a worse event.  I found that drinkers expect teetotalers to tolerate their offensive actions.  Most of the time, they don’t know how it makes them act.  Drinking alcohol damages relationships.  When I compare the harmful effects of illegal drugs and legal alcohol, I think hypocrisy and double standard.

Whose Fault?

Indiana state government passed the above law.  This owner decided to open a restaurant less than 200 feet of our church building.  To serve alcohol, the owner should follow the law of opening something further than 200 feet from where we meet.  I’m not for more alcohol drinking and I’m not going to write a letter to encourage it.  Our church did not invite the restaurant to open next to our building.

Our church didn’t write the law.  Indiana did.  If the law didn’t exist, the restaurant would serve alcohol.   My conscience also registers all of what I wrote in the four paragraphs of the previous section.  It would violate my conscience to write any such letter to the state for the service of alcohol.

I don’t think I’m better than other people because I don’t drink or serve alcohol.  Neither do I believe that drinking alcohol in some unique way sends someone to Hell.  Everyone sins.  That doesn’t mean I should write a letter supporting the service of alcohol.  I won’t do it.

Another Two Challenges

The Owner

The alcohol issue went off my radar again until a short while later a person showed up to our house, who was the owner of the Mexican restaurant.  The owner asked if I would write the letter that would permit the restaurant to serve alcohol.  I gave a brief scriptural presentation (see 1, 2, 3, 4, 5), including what I said above.  Also, I encouraged the owner, saying that maybe the success of the restaurant came from not serving alcohol.  Perhaps the restaurant could trust God in the matter.

The owner told me that customers asked for alcohol and put pressure to serve it.  When these customers asked why not, the owner pointed to our church as to why the restaurant could not get the permit.  That’s why I got that challenge on the very first door.  The owner blamed it on our church.  I told the owner, no, the state of Indiana made the law, not the church.  I would not write the letter, because I couldn’t.  The owner understood the reason.  It was a very peaceful, agreeable conversation.

Another Customer

Zoom forward to last week.  Again, I’m going door-to-door in evangelism.  While talking to a man at the door, his wife interrupted him, saying she wanted to ask me some questions.  She did.  The last one she asked was why we stopped the Mexican restaurant from getting a permit.  I explained to her what I wrote above.  She appreciated the answer, understood it.  I told her I did not see our position as harmful to our church or our evangelism.

Tongue-in-cheek the wife said she thought we might get more visitors to our service because of our position.  She heard customers threaten in mass to “visit” our church service to pressure us to stop hindering the alcohol service of the restaurant.  The restaurant encouraged this reaction by continuing to blame us for no alcohol on the menu.  The wife wondered if some compromise could be made.  The state requires a support or permission letter from me.  My convictions and conscience won’t allow me to write one.

This alcohol situation turned into a light form of religious persecution, precipitated by a hypocritical secular culture.  It now occurs in previously known as “the Bible belt.”  If I wanted, I could push back against the false accusations of the restaurant.  Honesty would require an explanation of a regulation passed by the state of Indiana, not our church.  My wife and I go to the restaurant.  It serves good food.  We pay for our meals and tip the waiters.  I still won’t write a letter giving permission to serve alcohol.

Creationism & KJV: James White / Thomas Ross Debate Review 5

Should creationists, advocates of young-earth creationism, use the King James Version? Dr. Henry Morris certainly thought so. When I recently debated James White on the preservation of Scripture, Dr. White claimed that the KJV translators, had they been alive today, would have been “completely” on his side in our debate, standing for modern Bible versions based on the Nestle-Aland Textus Rejectus and opposing the Received Text and their own translation.  His claim is astonishingly inaccurate, as the new debate review videos demonstrate.  The video below, #5, examines the KJV’s “Translators to the Reader,” where evidence is provided that the KJV translators were young earth creationists–something that a very high percentage of modern Bible version translators are not, and something that positively impacts the translation of the King James Bible.

 

You can watch debate review video #5 in the embedded link above, or see it on Faithsaves.net, Rumble, or YouTube. Please subscribe to the KJB1611 YouTube and the KJBIBLE1611 Rumble channel if you would like to know when more reviews are posted.  Thank you.

 

TDR

James White / Thomas Ross Debate: KJV Translators & KJVO (4)

When I recently debated James White on the preservation of Scripture, Dr. White claimed that the KJV translators would have been “completely” on his side in the debate, were they alive today.  I have produced a number of review videos examining this claim, as part of a video series which will, Lord willing, go through the entire debate.  In video review #4 we begin to examine the “Translators to the Reader,” KJV prefatory material, and compare what the translators actually believed to what James White claimed for them.  This examination uncovers that the KJV translators believed things about the inspiration and preservation of Scripture that are consistent with the Bibliology of verbal, plenary inspiration and preservation of the KJV-only and Confessional Bibliology movements, but are not consistent with the anti-inspiration and anti-preservation views that brought us the Nestle-Aland Greek text. Believing Scripture on its own inspiration and preservation leads by good and necessary consequence to the superiority of the Textus Receptus to the modern Nestle-Aland text. The “Translators to the Reader” also favors English translational choices in passages such as John 5:39 that are supported by the context and are found in other Reformation-era Bibles but are rejected by modern English versions. Thus, the KJV translators would favor their own translational choices, also found in other Reformation-era Bibles, to translational choices found in modern English versions. The KJV translators would view their original language base and translational choices as superior to those of modern versions.

 

The weakness of James White’s arguments explain why debate reviewers generally claimed that the perfect preservationist side came out ahead in the debate.

 

You can watch debate review video #4 in the embedded link above, or see it on Faithsaves.net, YouTube or Rumble. If you like the content, please “like” the videos, and consider subscribing to the KJB1611 YouTube and the KJBIBLE1611 Rumble channel if you would like to know when more reviews are posted.  Thank you.

 

TDR

Church Perpetuity, Sola Scriptura, and Roman Catholicism Versus Protestantism: Candace Owens Show

Many political conservatives and conservative Christians appreciate Candace Owens and Allie Beth Stuckey.  Until one recent show, the subject of this post, I had never seen a whole Candace Owens program, just clips here and there.  I had seen whole interviews by Allie Beth Stuckey on her podcast.  She deals with some unique subject matter.  Both are very popular, the former on Daily Wire and the latter with Blaze.

For a show episode included on youtube, Candace Owens invited her husband, George Farmer, a Roman Catholic, to debate Allie Beth Stuckey, a Protestant.  I watched all of part one and thought it would be helpful and informative to provide an analysis of their interaction.  Farmer grew up in England and attended Oxford.  He tells this story in the episode.  His dad converted to Christ from atheism, became an evangelical, and raised George this way.

Under the influence of a Roman Catholic scholar, George doubted the veracity of evangelicalism for Roman Catholicism.  Before he married Owens, he became a Roman Catholic.  Owens claims still to be a Protestant evangelical, leaning now Roman Catholic, attending Catholic church with her husband and children.

Allie Beth Stuckey grew up Southern Baptist, told the story that her family traces back Baptist in America for 300 years.  She remains Southern Baptist, but now claims to be a Reformed Baptist.  She considers herself a Protestant, Reformed, Baptist evangelical.

Perpetuity of Christ’s True Church

The Question

Farmer communicates his greatest conflict for staying Protestant and evangelical, a historical matter.  To remain Protestant, he would say that Christianity was lost before 1500, essentially no one was converted or a true Christian when the Reformation began.  In part one, Stuckey never addresses this seminal concern of Farmer.  Farmer never explains this conflict.  To start the debate, Candace Owens directed the debate by asking Stuckey what bothered her the most about Roman Catholicism, so they never doubled back to deal with the perpetuity of the church.

Before I move to what bothered Stuckey the most and Farmer’s answer to that concern, let me address perpetuity.  I would like to know how Stuckey would answer Farmer’s perpetuity conundrum.  I would join him in finding a problem with Protestantism or for Baptists, an English Separatist view.  Is Protestantism a restorationist movement, like the Church of Christ, Latter Day Saints, Apostolics, and Charismatics assert?

The perpetuity question also becomes one of authority.  How does the authority of God get passed to state church Protestants with their rejection of Roman Catholicism?  If Roman Catholicism represents an apostate body, how do they call themselves Reformed or Protestant?  Shouldn’t they make a clean break and repudiate Roman Catholicism as a true church?

The Answer

Protestants receive their authority from Roman Catholicism.  They must see Roman Catholicism as a true church through which God passed His truth.  By doing so, Protestants, including professing Baptist ones, also affirm a state church.  I couldn’t be a Roman Catholic or a Protestant.  Farmer exposes a major flaw in Protestantism.  There is a better way, really a biblical, right way — the only way.  Stuckey either doesn’t know it or doesn’t believe it.

The biblical, right way says true churches always existed since Christ, separate from the state church and known by different names.  The true church is not a catholic church.  It is a local, autonomous one.  Those churches did exist and passed down the truth.  They became known as Baptist churches.  By not taking that position, professing Baptists and Protestants play right into Roman Catholic hands.

Baptist perpetuity is mainly a presuppositional position.  Scripture teaches it.  The gates of hell would not prevail against Christ’s ekklesia, His assemblies (Matthew 16:18).  No one should expect a total apostasy until the saints of this age are off the scene, snatched up into the clouds to meet the Lord in the air (1 & 2 Thessalonians).  Until then, only some depart from the faith (1 Timothy 4:1).  True believers should just believe this happened.  They did until modernism crept into the Southern Baptist Convention and invented a different view of history for Baptists.

Sola Scriptura

What Verse?

Stuckey says her biggest bother with Roman Catholicism is the pope and the authority issue.  She asserts sola scriptura, the Bible as the only or final authority.  How does Farmer answer her?  He asks her for a verse or passage to prove sola scriptura.  She can’t do it.  She gives Farmer zero scriptural evidence.

I sat chagrined watching Stuckey’s non-scriptural support for her biggest bother.  Ironic.  Roman Catholicism doesn’t rely on scripture for its only authority and Stuckey has no scripture saying that’s wrong.  She said she recognized the circular reasoning with providing scripture for sola scriptura.  No way.

Farmer put Stuckey on the defensive and she tried to weave together some poor argument for sola scriptura from history.  Was Stuckey right?  Was there no answer to Farmer’s challenge?

Biblical Arguments for Sola Scriptura

What verse would you use?  I thought of four arguments instantly.  First, I thought 2 Timothy 3:16-17:

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Scripture (1) throughly furnished unto all good works and (2) is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness.  Every good work comes from scripture, no more or no less.  It is sufficient, that is, profitable for all of what verses 16-17 mention.  Doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness should come only from the Bible.

Second, nothing should be added to scripture.  It is the faith once and for all delivered unto the saints (Jude 1:3).  Revelation 22:18-19 commands to add nothing to God’s Word.  Adding to scripture brings severe warnings of terrible judgment from God.

Three, only faith pleases God and faith comes only by the Word of God (Hebrews 11:6, Romans 10:17).

Four, man lives by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matthew 4:4).  The converse is true.  Man will not live from something not the Word of God.  That includes the pope, tradition, what someone might call the wisdom of men.

I don’t know why Stuckey could not give this as evidence to Farmer.  She says she grew up in church and that the Bible is her authority, yet she couldn’t produce one scriptural argument about what bothered her the most about Roman Catholicism.

The Canon

As part of his argument against sola scriptura, Farmer used canonicity.  He said the canon came from Roman Catholic Church authority in a late fourth century council.  Stuckey sat there nodding, like she agreed.  Conservative evangelicals are not today agreeing with that assessment of canonicity.  I can say, however, that it was a typical Bible college and seminary presentation of canonicity thirty or forty years ago, maybe still today.

Farmer includes a separate church authority, making room to add the Pope and tradition as authorities with the Bible.  He uses this view of canonicity, an unscriptural presentation of canonicity.  Stuckey though sits and accepts this, by doing so encouraging viewers to turn Roman Catholic.  Owens should have recruited a better representative for evangelicalism than Stuckey.  She fails at her task, leaving viewers in greater confusion than when they started.

God used true churches, biblical assemblies after the model of His first church in Jerusalem and the early churches that one spawned, for recognition of the canon.  They immediately recognized the true, authoritative New Testament books, even as seen in Peter’s endorsement of Paul’s epistles in 2 Peter 3:15-17.  They hand copied those manuscripts and only those as a plain indication of their faith in them.  Councils were not necessary.  Today evangelicals often give too much credence to the Catholic councils as a perversion of biblical ecclesiology.

The Roman Catholic canon includes the apocrypha.  When someone sits silent to these additional books, that helps undermine true scriptural sufficiency and authority.  Accepting that Roman Catholic position of canonicity hurts sola scriptura.

Four Views On the Spectrum of Evangelicalism: A Book Review

I recently listened on Audible through the book Four Views on the Spectrum of Evangelicalism, contributors Kevin Bauder, R. Albert Mohler Jr., John G. Stackhouse Jr., and Roger E. Olson, series editor Stanley N. Gundry, gen eds. Andrew David Naselli & Collin Hansen (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2011).  The four views presented are:

Fundamentalism: Kevin Bauder

Confessional Evangelicalism, R. Albert Mohler, Jr.

Generic Evangelicalism, John G. Stackhouse, Jr.

Postconservative Evangelicalism, Roger E. Olson

When I listen through a book on Audible I usually listen through twice, since it is easier to miss things when listening to a book than it is when reading one.

For most of the book, I was cheering for Kevin Bauder, for reasons which will be clear below.

Let the Wolves In!

Roger Olson’s View

wolves eating sheep Christianity false teachers true false sin

Beginning with the bad people who are fine letting the wolves in: Roger Olson argues that “inerrancy cannot be regarded as necessary to being authentically evangelical.  It is what theologians call adiaphora–a nonessential belief” (pg. 165). What is more, “open theists [are] not heretical” (pg. 185). Evangelicals do not need to believe in penal substitution: “there is no single evangelical theory of the atonement. While the penal substitution theory (that Christ bore the punishment for sins in the place of sinners) may be normal, it could hardly be said to be normative” (pg. 183).  However, fundamentalism is “orthodoxy gone cultic” (pg. 67).  Deny Christ died in your place, think God doesn’t know the future perfectly, and think the Bible is full of errors? No problem. Let a Oneness Pentecostal, anti-Trinitarian “church” in to the National Association of Evangelicals (pg. 178)? Great!  Be a fundamentalist?  Your are cultic.

Summary: While Christ says His sheep hear His voice, and Scripture unambiguously teaches its infallible and inerrant inspiration (2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:16-21) as the Word of the God who cannot lie, and penal substitution is at the heart of the gospel, Dr. Olson thinks one can deny these things and not only be a Christian but be an evangelical.  Let in the heretics and the wolves!

Let Some of the Wolves In!

John Stackhouse’s View

angry wolf snarling teeth showing false teachers Christianity true false

John G. Stackhouse, Jr. is only slightly more conservative than Dr. Olson.  For Dr. Stackhouse, “open theists are, to my knowledge, genuine evangelicals” (pg. 132).  No! But at least anti-Trinitarian Oneness Pentecostals who have a false god, a false gospel, and are going to hell are not evangelicals (pg. 204).  Does something so obvious even deserve a “Yay”?

What about penal substitution? “substitutionary atonement is a nonnegotiable part of the Christian understanding of salvation, and evangelicals do well to keep teaching it clearly and enthusiastically” (pg. 136).  One cheer for Dr. Stackhouse.  But then he goes on:

But suppose somebody doesn’t teach it? Does that make him or her not an evangelical? According to the definition I have been using, such a person might well still be an evangelical. Indeed, the discussion in this section takes for granted that some (genuine) evangelicals are uneasy about substitutionary atonement, and a few even hostile to that idea. But they remain evangelicals nonetheless: still putting Christ and the cross in the center, still drawing from Scripture and testing everything by it, still concerned for sound and thorough conversion, still active in working with God in his mission, and still cooperating with evangelicals of other stripes. Evangelicals who diminish or dismiss substitutionary atonement seem to me to be in the same camp as my evangelical brothers and sisters who espouse open theism: truly evangelicals, and truly wrong about something important. (pgs. 136-137)

So the one cheer quickly is replaced by gasps for air and a shocked silence, as the heretics and the wolves come right back in again.  Dr. Bauder does a good job responding to and demolishing these justifications of apostasy and false religion.

Write Thoughtful Essays Showing that the Wolves Need Critique, but

Let the World and the Flesh In and Don’t Be A Fundamentalist Separatist:

Al Mohler’s View

mega church rocking out smoke electrical guitars hands in air worldly fleshly devilish

R. Albert Mohler, Jr. calls his view “Confessional Evangelicalism,” although he never cites any Baptist or any other confession of faith in his essay.  He thinks you do actually need to believe Christ died in your place, open theism is unacceptable, and an inerrant Bible is something worth standing for (1.5 cheers for Dr. Mohler, led by very immodestly dressed Southern Baptist cheerleaders who know that God made them male and female, not trans). However, Dr. Mohler does not believe in anything close to a Biblical doctrine of ecclesiastical separation.  His Southern Baptist denomination is full of leaven that is corrupting the whole lump.  His ecclesiastical polity is like the Biden administration on the USA’s southern border–claiming that there are a few barriers that keep out people who are trying to creep in unawares while millions of illegals come pouring in with a nod and a wink.

Dr. Bauder makes some legitimate criticisms of Dr. Mohler, while also being much more cozy with him than John the Baptist or the Apostles would have been. Dr. Bauder says that Mohler is “doing a good work, and that work would be hindered if I were to lend credibility to the accusation that he is a fundamentalist” (pg. 97).  That is Bauder’s view of the false worship, the huge number of unregenerate church members, the spiritual deadness, the doctrinal confusion, and the gross disobedience in the Southern Baptist Convention. Hurray?  Dr. Bauder’s discussion is not how the first century churches would have worked with disboedient brethren (2 Thessalonians 3:6, 14).

Separate From the Wolves, but Not From Disobedient Sheep:

Kevin Bauder’s “Mainstream Fundamentalist” View

Modern Bible versions NIV NASB Living REB Message Good News NJB KJV

Kevin Bauder is a self-identified “historic fundamentalist.”  (But what if there never was a unified “historic fundamentalism”?)  He is the only one of the four contributors who actually thinks that ecclesiastical separation needs to take place.  So two cheers for Dr. Bauder!  Bauder argues:  “the gospel is the essential ground of all genuinely Christian unity. Where the gospel is denied, no such unity exists” (pg. 23).  Therefore, “Profession of the gospel is the minimum requirement for visible Christian fellowship. The gospel is the boundary of Christian fellowship” (pg. 25).  Bauder does a good job showing that people must separate from those who deny the gospel, or those who fellowship with those who deny the gospel.  Two more cheers for Bauder.

However, Bauder warns about what he calls “hyper-fundamentalism,” which is actually Biblically consistent separatism (and which gets no voice to defend itself in this book).  He has strong words for the “hyper-fundamentalists”–stronger than the way he voices his disagreements with Mohler:

One version of fundamentalism goes well beyond the idea that I summarized earlier in this essay. It could be called hyper-fundamentalism. Hyper-fundamentalism exists in a variety of forms. … [H]yper-fundamentalists sometimes adopt a militant stance regarding some extrabiblical or even antibiblical teaching. For example, many professing fundamentalists are committed to a theory of textual preservation and biblical translation that leaves the King James Version as the only acceptable English Bible. When individuals become militant over such nonbiblical teachings, they cross the line into hyper-fundamentalism. … [H]yper-fundamentalists understand separation in terms of guilt by association. To associate with someone who holds any error constitutes an endorsement of that error. Persons who hold error are objects of separation, and so are persons who associate with them. … [H]yper-fundamentalists sometimes turn nonessentials into tests of fundamentalism. For example, some hyper-fundamentalists assume that only Baptists should be recognized as fundamentalists. Others make the same assumption about dispensationalists, defining covenant theologians out of fundamentalism. Others elevate extrabiblical personal practices. One’s fundamentalist standing may be judged by such criteria as hair length, musical preferences, and whether one allows women to wear trousers. … Hyper-fundamentalism takes many forms, including some that I have not listed. Nevertheless, these are the forms that are most frequently encountered. When a version of fundamentalism bears one or more of these marks, it should be viewed as hyper-fundamentalist. It is worth noting that several of these marks can also be found in other versions of evangelicalism.

Hyper-fundamentalism is not fundamentalism. It is as a parasite on the fundamentalist movement. … Mainstream fundamentalists find themselves in a changing situation. One factor is that what was once the mainstream may no longer be the majority within self-identified fundamentalism. A growing proportion is composed of hyper-fundamentalists, who add something to the gospel as the boundary of minimal Christian fellowship. If the idea of fundamentalism is correct, then this error is as bad as dethroning the gospel from its position as the boundary.

Another factor is that some evangelicals have implemented aspects of the idea of fundamentalism, perhaps without realizing it. For example, both Wayne Grudem and Albert Mohler (among others) have authored essays that reverberate with fundamentalist ideas. More than that, they and other conservative evangelicals have put their ideas into action, seeking doctrinal boundaries in the Evangelical Theological Society and purging Southern Baptist institutions.

Mainstream fundamentalists are coming to the conclusion that they must distance themselves from hyper-fundamentalists, and they are displaying a new openness to conversation and even some cooperation with conservative evangelicals. Younger fundamentalists in particular are sensitive to the inconsistency of limiting fellowship to their left but not to their right. (pgs. 43-45)

By Bauder’s definition, the first century churches would have been “hyper-fundamentalist” parasites.  (Note that Bauder also makes claims such as:  “Some hyper-fundamentalists view education as detrimental to spiritual well-being” [pg. 44].  There is probably a guy named John somewhere in a “hyper-fundamentalist” church that thinks education is a sin, and there is also probably a lady named Mary in a neo-evangelical church who thinks the same thing, and a big burly fellow named Mat in a post-conservative church who agrees with them, but nothing further about these sorts of claims by Bauder needs further comment.  So we return to something more serious.)  Do you separate over more than just the gospel?  Do you, for example, separate over men who refuse to work and care for their families (2 Thess 3:6-14)?  You are a parasite, just as bad, if not worse, than people who do not separate at all.  Do you separate over false worship (“musical styles” to Bauder), since God burned people up for offering Him strange fire (Lev 10:1ff)?  You are bad–very, very bad.  Let the strange fire right in to the New Testament holy of holies (1 Corinthians 3:16-17)!–even though God says He will “destroy” those who do such a wicked thing.  Do you take a stand for the perfect preservation of Scripture–as did men like George S. Bishop, one of the contributors to The Fundamentals (see, e. g., George S. Bishop, The Fundamentals: “The Testimony of the Scriptures to Themselves,” vol. 2:4 [Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2005], 80ff.)? You King James Only parasite!  Do you seek to follow the Apostle Paul and the godly preacher Timothy, and allow “no other doctrine” in the church–not just “no other gospel,” but “no other doctrine” (1 Timothy 1:3)?  Do you repudiate Dr. Bauder’s schema of levels of fellowship to seek what Scripture defines as unity: “that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment” (1 Corinthians 1:10)?  You are bad–very, very bad.  You should be rejected, and we should join hands, instead, with evangelicals like Mohler who write essays that we “reverberate” with while they work in a Southern Baptist Convention teeming with unregenerate preachers and church members which almost never obeys Matthew 18:15-20 and practices church discipline.  If you think Scripture is not kidding when it says men with long hair or women with short hair is a “shame” (1 Corinthians 11:1-16), or you do not want the women in your church to be an “abomination” (Deuteronomy 22:5) by wearing men’s clothing like pants, then you are certainly, certainly beyond the pale.  Corruptions in our culture do not matter-let them into what should be Christ’s pure bride! Everyone knows that the loving thing to do is to allow half the congregation to be an abomination so that they can fit in with our worldly, hell-bound culture.

Dr. Bauder at least says one should separate over the gospel, and he does a good job proving that Scripture requires churches to do that.  He has numbers of effective critiques of positions to his left.  He clearly has studied history and is a thinker.  But he does not present a Biblical case for consistent separatism-very possibly because consistent ecclesiastical separation is only possible when one rejects universal “church” ecclesiology for local-only or Landmark Baptist ecclesiology, and views the local assembly as the locus for organizational unity, while Bauder believes in a universal “church” and must somehow accomodate Scripture’s commands for unity in the body of Christ to that non-extant entity.  As the book A Pure Church: A Biblical Theology of Ecclesiastical Separation demonstrates, churches must separate from all unrepentant and continuing disobedience, not just separate over the gospel.  Dr. Bauder’s view is insufficient.  Furthermore, his critique of what he labels “hyper-fundamentalism” is inconsistent.  If the “hyper-fundamentalists” do things like separate too much and take stands for pure worship, are they thereby denying the gospel?  If not, why does Bauder think they should be repudiated and separated from?

One other important point: some of those who would repudiate Dr. Bauder’s view as too weak are themselves to his left, not his right.  For example, the King James Bible Research Council and the Dean Burgon Society, prominent King James Only advocacy organizations that would claim to be militant fundamentalists, are willing to fellowship with anti-repentance, anti-Lordship, anti-Christ (for does not “Christ” mean “the Messiah, the King, the Lord”?) advocates of heresy on the gospel as advocated by Jack Hyles, Curtis Hudson and the Sword of the Lord, and the so-called “free grace” movement of Zane Hodges.  Fundamentalist schools that stand for gender-distinction and conservative worship, such as Baptist College of Ministry in Menomonee Falls, WI, are willing to fellowship with people who believe the truth on repentance and the gospel as well as with anti-repentance heretics at Hyles Anderson College and First Baptist (?) Church (?) of Hammond, Indiana like John Wilkerson.  If you think Kevin Bauder’s Central Baptist Seminary is too weak, but you yourself do not separate even over the gospel, but tolerate false views of repentance or other heresies on the gospel that Paul would not have tolerated for one hour (Galatians 1:6-9, 2:5), you need to reconsider your position.

Take a stand–follow God.  Allow “no other doctrine” (1 Timothy 1:3). Separate not just on the gospel, but from all unfruitful works of darkness (Ephesians 5:11).  You may be excluded from the book Four Views on the Spectrum of Evangelicalism, with its more liberal contributors viewing you as “cultic” and the most conservative contributor viewing you as a “parasite” and a “hyper-fundamentalist,” but that is fine-God your adopted Father, Christ your gracious Redeemer, and the blessed Holy Spirit, who has made your body and your congregation into His holy temple, will be pleased.  The needy sheep in your flock who had a faithful pastor will embrace you and thank you as they shine like the sun in the coming glorious kingdom, as you led them to faithfulness to Christ and a full reward, instead of compromise.  If Christ does not return first, your church may, by God’s grace, continue to pass on the truth and to multiply other true churches for centuries, instead of falling into apostasy because of a sinful failure to consistently practice Biblical separation.

Get off the spectrum of evangelicalism entirely and follow Scripture alone for the glory of God alone in a separatist, Bible-believing and practicing Baptist church.  You will be opposed now, but God will be glorified, and it will be worth it all, when we see Jesus.

TDR

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Changes in Personal Belief and the Effects on Relationships (part one)

Growth and Change

No one comes into this world knowing every doctrine of scripture.  For someone to grow in grace and knowledge, he will change in his personal belief.  He could go either way, better or worse.  A person won’t remain static.  Growth requires making good changes and avoiding bad ones.

Like anyone else, I have a story of change in personal belief.  I have often told people that I changed on eight to ten biblical doctrines or issues of various significance through the years.  No one should change from something right to something wrong.  I always believed I was moving from wrong to right, but not everyone agreed with that.

Adding and Subtracting

God says, don’t take away from or add to scripture.  Both directions are bad, subtracting and adding.  Furthermore, someone doesn’t do better if he takes every doctrine or issue to the most strict or extreme place that he could.

In the Garden of Eden, Eve said the following in Genesis 3:2-3 to the serpent:

We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:  But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

God had said the following in Genesis 2:17:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

When you read the two statements, you can see that Eve added to what God said.  God said nothing about touching the fruit of the tree.  Yet, Eve did.  She took an even more extreme position than God, which was wrong.

Almost every change I ever made in belief or practice, I moved in a stronger, more strict or conservative direction.  Certain other Christians opposed some of those changes.  In a most recent change, that developed over a number of years, I loosened in my belief or practice.  I see liberty on something where I once saw regulation.  Those accustomed to my rightward movement saw this as inconsistent.

Precipitating Change

In every instance I changed, some event precipitated the change.  Very often I changed while preaching or teaching a series through a particular book.  Sometimes I was faced with a situation that I had never encountered.  I had to make a decision.

In all my years of pastoring, that I know, I have never believed and practiced in an identical way with any other church.  I know of no Baptist church that is identical to another in its belief and practice.   Beliefs and practices might be close to the same, but with slight variation.

Here at this blog, Thomas Ross and I don’t believe or practice exactly the same.  We have differences.  We’re very close, but not the same.  Some of you readers have read our debates here and elsewhere.  Nonetheless, we still partner on this blog.

Through the years, our church still fellowshipped with other churches even with the differences we had.  It’s usually not easy to clash with another church on doctrinal and practical differences.  Even interpretational differences might bring conflict between believers or churches.  Almost everyone thinks they’re right.

Reasons for Change and Differences

When I change, why believe or practice different than before?  Why do Bible believing and practicing churches still have some differences with each other in doctrine and practice?

Direct Statements, Plain Inferences

Differences in belief and practice start with variated understanding of either direct statements of scripture or of the plain inferences from direct statements in the Bible.  Not every teaching of the Bible comes from a direct statement.  Some comes from a combination of direct statements and plain inferences.  In general I haven’t changed in my adult life on anything in a category of direct statements or plain inferences from scripture.

When I say direct statements and plain inferences, I also say that these proceed from only a grammatical, historical interpretation of scripture.  Direct statements and plain inferences come from the actual meaning of the words of scripture in their context.  I also consider the laws for the usage of those words, their syntax, and their meaning in their textual and historical context.

I take a stronger position on repentance and Lordship than I did forty years ago.  In the past, I never denied that teaching.  However, like every other doctrine and practice proceeding from direct statement and plain inference from direct statements, I grew in my grasp and conviction.

A Series of Overlapping Statements and Inferences

Some doctrines and practices proceed from a series of overlapping statements and inferences in the Bible.  When you read all of the passages combined, you will come to certain conclusions that are also your beliefs and practices.  The nation Israel, one third of its total number of people according to Zechariah, will receive Christ as the Messiah during the seven year tribulation period.  Nations will surround her and at this juncture, Israel will repent with a confession such as Isaiah 53.  God will save Israel.

I get my belief about the event of the salvation of Israel from conclusions arising from a series of overlapping statements and inferences in scripture.  Furthermore, almost every belief and practice, comes from both the interpretation and the application of scripture.  Application almost always depends on the reality of certain self-evident truths, assumed by God.  God expects us to apply what He said.  Man lives by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

Separating Differences

Many professing believers take what I call, unscriptural positions.  Differences occur between believers and churches when one or more veer away from the teaching of the Bible.  They might do that for many reasons.  Some of them are just personal.  An individual believer or a church leader may have a personal issue with someone.  People might not like the way someone treated them or others with whom they fellowship.

Differences between churches may not be doctrinal or practical, but personal or political.  They fellowship with others with different doctrine or practice, even with the same differences as someone with whom they won’t.  Their decisions about relationship relate to hurt feelings or bruised egos.  They won’t reconcile, forgive, or seek mediation because of pride.  They wait for the other party to initiate reconciliation, and even if it does, they reject reconciliation or mediation.  True churches separate, but scripture teaches constructive reasons, not personal or political ones.

More to Come

James White / Thomas Ross Debate Review Videos

There have been a number of debate reviews of the James White vs. Thomas Ross debate on the topic:

“The Legacy Standard Bible, as a representative of modern English translations based upon the UBS/NA text, is superior to the KJV, as a representative of TR-based Bible translations.”

James White Thomas Ross King James Bible Legacy Standard Bible debate Textus Receptus Nestle Aland

You can watch the debate itself here on the What is Truth? blog, on my website, on Rumble, or on YouTube.  If you did watch it, you can also examine some of the review videos.  I intend to produce, Lord willing, a series of videos that carefully examine the entire debate.  To this point, I have two debate review videos live (one made before the debate was live, and a second one, just produced, that begins to examine James White’s opening presentation).

Thomas Ross: Debate Review and Analysis part #1:

Pre-debate Review Video of James White & His Claims

 


Watch the debate review part #1 on Rumble

Watch the debate review part #1 on YouTube

In this initial debate review, I provide my thoughts on how the debate went and respond to James White’s claims about the debate in his Dividing Line program of February 21, 2023, c. minutes 5-18, entitled “Road Trip Dividing Line: Gay Mirage, Mass, Biblicism.”

 

Debate Review and Analysis part #2: James White & His Opening Presentation, part 1: Would the King James Version Translators have Preferred the Legacy Standard Bible and the Nestle-Aland Greek Text to the KJV and the Textus Receptus?

Watch the debate review part #2 on Rumble

Watch the debate review part #2 on YouTube

I now have twelve of these debate review videos.  You can watch them all at faithsaves.net, on YouTube, or on Rumble.  At least at this point I have not added the ten after the first two to this post to prevent the post from getting overwhelming.  Please think about subscribing to my YouTube and Rumble channels to find out when new video reviews come out, as I intend to record some more debate review videos, Lord willing.

 

James White (Apologia Church): His Own Debate Comments in the Dividing Line

If you would like to hear what James White said about the debate afterwards, watch minutes 5-18 of his February 21, 2023 Dividing Line program.

 

Jeff Riddle: Reformed Baptist and Confessional Bibliology Advocate’s Debate Review

 

Dr. Jeff Riddle has produced some helpful post-debate reviews. You can watch part 1, part 2, part 3, and part 4 on YouTube, or watch them on the embedded links below.  I appreciate what Dr. Riddle has written on what he calls Confessional Bibliology.  Dr. Riddle rightly wants to distance himself (as do most people who are happy to call themselves King James Only) from extremists like Peter Ruckman and Gail Riplinger while recognizing the difference between the way the original language text is inspired as to its words and translations are God’s Word as to their substance (what he calls the principle of Authoritas Divina Duplex, if you want a little Latin).  Whatever you wish to call it, I appreciate his perspective on this issue of Bibliology, although Scripture does not teach TULIP Calvinism (and it also certainly does not teach Arminianism).

Jeff Riddle Debate Review Part 1:

 

Jeff Riddle debate review part 2:

Jeff Riddle debate review part 3:

Jeff Riddle debate review part 4:

 

There is a written debate review here on What is Truth? by Dr. Kent Brandenburg: “The White-Ross Debate: Who Won?” as well as some follow-up posts by Dr. Brandenburg (follow-up part 1; part 2; part 3).

There are also some debate reviews by a gentleman named Nick Sayers, who has a website called Textus Receptus.  I know less about his doctrinal position than I do about Dr. Riddle.  Mr. Sayers belongs to a religious organization called “Revolution Church.” He made seven extremely long debate review videos (part 1, part 2, part 3, part 4, part 5, part 6, part 7).  A large percentage of what he points out is useful, although I would disagree with him at a minority of points.  Everyone should repent and believe the gospel, and then be immersed into a Baptist Church, not a Revolution church.

 

I am not aware of any of the disciples of James White making any review videos dealing in detail with the substance of the debate.  The best I could locate was a five-minute review by one of James White’s disciples named “Polite Leader.” Polite Leader completely ignored the fact that the Nestle-Aland text is a patchwork and many of the other extreme problems with the text White is defending, but I suppose one can only say so much in a video that short, and so putting in what he believed were James’ best points would be important, from his viewpoint.

 

Thanks again for your prayers for God’s truth and for me during the debate.  To Him alone be the glory for the good for His kingdom that was accomplished by it, and to me alone be the blame for what I should have done better.

 

TDR

James White / Thomas Ross Bible Version Debate (KJV vs LSB) is Now Live!

I am happy to report that you can now watch the James White / Thomas Ross debate on Bible versions (the King James Version Only debate)!  The topic was:

 

“The Legacy Standard Bible, as a representative of modern English translations based upon the UBS/NA text, is superior to the KJV, as a representative of TR-based Bible translations.”

 

James White was in the affirmative.

Thomas Ross was in the negative.

 

The debate can now be viewed on the following sites (click for your choice): FaithSaves   Rumble   YouTube

 

It can also be watched using the embedded video below:

Please “like” the video on YouTube and Rumble and share comments about it on those websites as well as on the blog here.

 

I am thankful for the work put in by the follower of James White who edited the video.  I would like to have a somewhat improved version where one can see both the debaters and the slides at the same time, instead of only one or the other, and if that project gets completed, we will definitely plan to inform the blog readership about it.

 

May the truth of the perfect preservation of His infallible Word be more widely received as a result of this debate.  Soli Deo Gloria!

 

Please also read the James White / Thomas Ross Bible Version debate review, part 1, here (with more to come) or watch the video on FaithSaves, Rumble or YouTube.  Lord willing, there are more parts to come reviewing the debate and its arguments.

TDR

James White / Thomas Ross Debate Review Video #1

After my debate with James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, James posted his post-debate thoughts. (I have also written a few thoughts.)  I was quite surprised to hear him make affirmations about my character such as that he “knew” I was “not intending to” bring the audience along with me, that I had a “really, really deep disrespect for the audience,” that “Ross didn’t care. He wasn’t debating for us,” that I did not understand what a text type was, or even “anything like that at all,” and so on, rather than expositing Scripture on its own preservation or demonstrating that even one quotation in my presentation, or one fact I pointed out, was inaccurate.  I believe that the fact that he spent his post-debate analysis attacking me instead of dealing with my arguments may tell you something about how the debate went–I was very thankful for the blessing of the Lord in the debate itself for the cause of God’s truth.  (Let me just add that not one of the thoughts James claims that he “knew” about my motives and so on, to my recollection, even entered my mind one time before I heard him make them in his post-debate analysis.)

 

The debate video itself, Lord willing, will be live soon; it takes a lot more work to get a video like that done than it does to create a video where I am just ruminating about the debate.  Feel free to subscribe to my Rumble and YouTube channels to get notified as soon as the video becomes available.

 

You can watch my initial post-debate response, giving my thoughts on how it went, as well as responding to James White’s allegations, with the embedded video below, at faithsaves.net, on Rumble, or on YouTube.

 

My sincere thanks again to those who prayed for me and for those who helped in many other ways.

TDR

 

Trail of Blood and Landmarkism

Part One

Men use the terms “Trail of Blood” and “Landmarkism” as a kind of mockery, almost never with evidence.  They use them in the same manner as calling someone a “Flat Earther.”  If I said I was “Trail of Blood” and “Landmark,” what would I mean?  Should I embrace those terms in light of potential derision?

Trail of Blood

“Trail of Blood” refers to a booklet written by James Milton Carroll in 1931.  Carroll did not originate the words “trail of blood” as referring to the persecution of churches.  Others before used “trail of blood” to describe the ongoing record of atrocities of Roman Catholicism through the centuries in its opposition to the truth.  I like the metaphor of Carroll, which is saying that you can detect true churches in the historical record through findings of state church persecution.

Carroll would say that the trail of blood started with the Lord Jesus Christ and that suffering marks the trajectory of true churches.  I use this exact language all the time, “There have always been true churches separate from the state church.”  I also ask this question, “Do you believe the truth was preserved in and through Roman Catholicism?”  Men find it difficult to answer “yes” to that question.  If they answer, “No,” then they essentially take a Trail of Blood position.  I say, “Well, then we take the same position, don’t we?”

Whitsitt Controversy and English Separatism

Opposition to the Trail of Blood started with a liberal president of the Southern Baptist Convention, William Whitsitt (read here, here, here, and here).  The work of Whitsitt is less famous than Carroll’s Trail of Blood, but if someone does not accept the Trail of Blood, his other option is called, “English Separatism.”  Can we mock someone as “English Separatist”?  The Trail of Blood position predates the English Separatist one.  If someone rejects Trail of Blood, he is left with the Roman Catholic position on church perpetuity or succession.  He denies the promise of Jesus, “the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it” (Matthew 16:18).

Whitsitt took from his European training a modernistic view of truth.  He wrote and said that if it does not have primary source historical evidence, it isn’t true.  From this, Whitsitt said that the earliest Baptist churches trace from 1610 in England.

A split occurred in the Southern Baptist Convention over Whitsitt.  The Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary under the presidency of B. H. Carroll started in a major way because of the Whitsitt controversy.  Most Southern Baptists then distinguished themselves from Protestants.  Carroll’s brother wrote Trail of Blood.

The Application of Modernistic Historicism

Did you know a historical gap exists between the completion of the New Testament and the doctrine of justification?  With that historical position, justification did not exist until after the Protestant Reformation.  No primary source evidence exists for the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem.  I’ve been to Bethlehem in the Palestinian West Bank area, and the best historical evidence outside of scripture for Jesus’ birth is secondary and vague.  It starts around 325 with Constantine’s mother Helena visiting there.

The mockery designated for Trail of Blood reminds me of the mockery by scientists of a God Hypothesis and intelligent design.  Trail of Blood is true, but it is institutionally inconvenient.  Intelligent design or a God Hypothesis puts people out of business.  Trail of Blood is a strict ecclesiological position that undermines free-floating free agents, who function outside of church authority, like for instance, Alpha and Omega ministries.  “Ministries” function outside of a church, not something we read in the Bible, and cross denominational lines on a regular basis.

Landmarkism

The attack on Landmarkism dovetails with the one on Trail of Blood.  Landmarkism did not originate local-only ecclesiology.  The Landmark movement began in the Southern Baptist Convention because of an ecumenical drift in the Convention.  Modernism began affecting the Convention.  Compromise grew.  Baptist churches began allowing Presbyterians in their pulpit and accepted their “baptism” for transfer of church membership.  The Landmarkers stood against this.

The Landmarkers believed local-only ecclesiology like most of the Southern Baptists in the middle 19th century, but they stressed and influenced a stronger practice.  They rejected what they called, “alien immersion,” baptism without proper authority.  They were saying, “Don’t accept Presbyterian baptism,” or any other Protestant baptism.  The Protestants arose from Roman Catholicism with a continuation of state church doctrine.  Baptist churches should reject their baptism, Landmarkers claimed, practiced, and encouraged all Baptists to join that.

Many today define Landmarkism with a giant falsehood.  They say Landmarkism is chain-link succession of Baptist churches.  Furthermore, they say that Landmarkism requires proof of a chain-link succession of Baptist churches all the way to the Jerusalem church.  That is not what Landmarkism is.

In a more simple way, you should understand Landmarksim as, first, since Christ, true New Testament churches always existed separate from the state church.  Second, churches start churches.  Third, baptism requires a proper administrator.  Authority is a matter of faith, but scripture recognizes the importance of it.  It does not proceed from Roman Catholicism, so it also does not come from Protestantism.

Authority isn’t arbitrary.  It is real and it is somewhere.  We should not eliminate it.  This arises from the rebellion of men’s hearts.  Men don’t want authority, especially church authority.  I see this as the primary cause of the controversy over Landmarkism and the Trail of Blood.

AUTHORS OF THE BLOG

  • Kent Brandenburg
  • Thomas Ross

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