20 Comments

1. Brother Ross,

   Have you considered work in the Bible Translation field? Your linguistic abilities and the need for translators, combined with your specific Bibliology, naturally suggest that line as a good fit for you, at least to this HR Manager's eye.

   Just a thought.

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2. I had the same thought, but decided to mind my own business. But since Dave said so, I'll chime in.

   What better task than to provide the Word to those who don't have it?

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3. Thomas,

   As your brother-in-law, I have to say these men might be on to something. I don't know why I haven't suggested it before. I know of a number of languages that could use an accurate translation, not to mention the countless people groups without God's WORD at all. Maybe First Bible International would be something you would be comfortable with. Josh Roberts

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4. Would you be willing to give a brief outline of your view of personal communion? Based on the initial statements I may have mpre detailed questions. Oftentimes this subject is overlooked, generally to the loss of the overlooker. I comsider it of greatest importance: so much so that I could not recommend anybody who does not have the right view (such a man would have nothing to offer in the ministry except pride in the Intellect)

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5. Dear Anonymous,

   You are exactly right that personal communion is extremely important. If you call my church at (262) 363-4197 they can give you my home phone number and we can talk about it. (I don't want my home phone # on the Internet if I can avoid it.) I believe your comment was posted for a long time before I realized it was there. My preaching and teaching here:

   http://www.mukwonagobaptist.org/sermons/?preacher=29

   can also hopefully be of assistance in understanding my views. Thanks for the important question.

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6. I have also just made it so I'll see followup comments here.

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7. Mr. Ross boasted and bragged about himself as though his educational accomplishments and writing and editing of books (there is no end to that madness!) made him spiritual and loved to give details of all these accomplishments, then he will not mind answering the following.

   1> How many times have you read the Holy King James Bible from Genesis to Revelation?

   2> How long do you communion with God every day praying and meditating upon the things of God?

   And because of (1) and (2),

   3> How often have you ministered to the body of Christ by visiting them and actually helped them by "working with your hands"?

   4> How often have you went to a neighbors home and actually helped them by "working with your hands"?

   5> How often have you gone "into the world" and preached in the open air concerning Jesus Christ command by the Spirit to "reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment" and call them to "repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ"?

   6> Have you ever left your home and gone to the poor of the world and ministered to them?

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8. Dear George,

   Since you have already decided that I was boasting, bragging, mad, and wrote what I did because I love to promote myself, will it do much good for me to answer your questions here?

   Furthermore, please note that the greatest commandment of all is to love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and this commandment cannot be kept by an anti-Trinitarian. George, would you not do well to answer the questions I asked you here:

   http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-anabaptists-did-not-get-trinity.html

   or, if you cannot answer them, to turn from modalism and embrace the Trinity? Someone can do the things you mention without having any true Christian spirituality or love for God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost – and if we do not believe in the Trinity, we do not have any true Christian spirituality or love.

   Nevertheless, I will answer your questions. For the glory of God and for your own soul's salvation, I hope you will answer mine.

   1.) I have read it many times. I have not kept track of how many.

   2.) Over the course of a week, I seek to spend six hours, at least, studying the Bible or doing biblical research. Of that six, I will spend at least two hours reading the Hebrew Bible. In addition to this, I read at least 40 verses of the Greek New Testament a week. In addition to this, I will spend at least an hour working through a book of the Bible with a commentary. In addition to this, I will read at least 425 verses a week in the King James Bible. I will also spend a minimum of half an hour a day in prayer. I will also spend at least 35 minutes a week memorizing Scripture. In the past, I've memorized the pastoral epistles, Romans, Ephesians, and other parts of the Bible in English. I am now memorizing the gospel of John in Greek. In total, I would say spend an average of two hours or more a day.

   When I lead my family in family devotions, we spend some time studying a book of the Bible, sing praise to God (a morning, midday, and evening song, although they are not always sung at those specific times), and pray together. We also regularly quiz each other over the parts of the Bible we are memorizing. My wife and I have sung through the entire Psalter together, which is a tremendous blessing.

   3-4.) I assist my church – the body of Christ – with physical work, and my fellow church members with physical work, on our church work days and other such settings.

   5.) I love to preach on the street and do so when it makes sense to do so. The town we live in usually does not have large crowds of people on the street, so we do more door-to-door to reach everybody in the community. There are more opportunities to preach on the street in Milwaukee, especially in the summertime, and I enjoy taking those opportunities. Opportunities such as Summerfest and Pridefest are situations where street preaching can take place in our area.

   6.) We do a variety of things to minister to the poor of the world biblically. I'm not going to get into detail because of Matthew 6:3.

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9. Let me add one more thing, one which is extremely important. If I were to receive what I deserve for the best thing I've ever done in my life, God would immediately thrust me into the depths of hell. My only hope, and my glory from now to eternity, is the death, blood, and righteousness of my Savior Jesus Christ. Only grace, grace exalted above the infinite depths, depravity, wretchedness, and wickedness of my sin, could ever have provided me the sure hope I find in Jesus Christ, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

   Oh to know more, both intellectually and experientially, of the eternal love of the Father and the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, His eternal Son, through the communion of the Holy Spirit!

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10. Dr. Ross,

    Who are the people of God and do you consider yourself part of it?

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11. Dear Andrew,

    The people of God are those who are in union with Jesus Christ because, through repentant faith in His death, burial, and resurrection on their behalf, their sins have been forgiven for Christ's sake and they stand perfectly righteous before God because of the Son's work on the cross.

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    I rejoice that, by God's grace alone and for His glory alone, through faith alone I have been made one of the people of God. If you are interested in my conversion story, you can read it here:

    faithsaves.net/unbelief-truth/

    Thanks.

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12. Hi Dr. Ross,

    I agree with you. I also came to be saved by the Lord in 2015. I had understood the points of the gospel and made statements of faith many years before that, but these were not backed by the conviction of the truth, and I now realize that I had previously been doing things and behaved in certain ways in the past not for God, but for others and myself. Needless to say, this does not last.

    Then over process of time, I found out that a lot of the things I had been taught about the Bible growing up were not what they were made out to be. It had been suggested in the various circles I went through not to look too deeply into it, that there were errors and contradictions, and no clear way to settle it. As I was reading through the Book of John ch. 8 and 10, I came to see that God has left a way to find him. It says in John 8:47 that he that is of God heareth God's words. I came to believe this had to be true. It is possible for those whom God wants to reach to be able to hear his words. Then I finally believed in what Jesus said in John 12:48 which is that for all who reject the word that he has spoken, the same does judge them in the last day. That was the exact moment that I realized it all had to be true, I confessed and started doing things for God from then on. I thank God for always being there. I knew that the reason why Jesus Christ had to die was for my own sins and offenses toward God and man, but that he chose to do so and that He was willing to save me and even lead me to the place I now was. It all became real finally, only because I saw that the truth must be fulfilled in that all will be judged by the same standard conveyed in God's word. I started caring more about what my God thinks about things and what he wants than anything, such as what other people think. I started to believe that the truth does prevail over falsehoods, and even miraculously so against all opposition. Also that the truth is better than any one of us, and that every thing and being relies on truth. Lastly, I realized that I had secretly been wanting this to be true all along, that this was a prayer of mine but in God's timing was I brought into belief.

    So thanks for your answer, Thomas.

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13. Thanks Andrew.

    Maybe the Bible study videos at faithsaves.net/Bible-studies/ could help you with clarity on the gospel or even understanding your past history.

    Thanks.

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14. Hi Dr. Ross,

    I am sorry if I wasn't clear on anything in my previous post. I live in the states and I am also a member of a Baptist church not part of any conventions. We all believe in verbal plenary inspiration of the word of God and use the received text. That is part of the reason I found your site here (in fact my pastor recommended me here occasionally). Again though I understand your response if I was not clear before. I think you are doing the right thing (Hebrews 10:23-25) by being part of a Bible-believing church like I am.

    But… this is actually a good moment to bring up the original reason I asked you this question here. I was glad to see you agreed with me about the one true people of God. I have been around churches a lot despite only becoming saved very recently. One of the points of false doctrine that I have Biblical reasons to refute is the idea that a Christ-rejecting people are the true people of God. This is a false doctrine that is very prevalent in our locale due to being found in many commentaries and footnotes used by the immediate former generation to ours. I noticed in your statement you stressed accepting "dispensational distinctions" there. And I was not sure to the extent you meant. That was the reason for my question, after all I have firm Scriptural grounding to overthrow any kind of false hyperdispensational ideas. I am glad to see that wasn't necessary here, so with that I will leave with a very warm approval of everything you said here. If you have anything to add, feel free. Since you gave your testimony (and I read it all) I felt it was appropriate to respond also rather than leave you in the dark, so to say. Thanks again, Dr. Ross.

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15. Dear Andrew,

    Got it, thanks for the clarity.

    All believers, regardless of the period of time, are the people of God in one very important sense. There is also a sense in which Israel as a nation is the physical people of God, but that certainly does not mean that they are all saved, don't need to believe, etc.

    Pretribulational dispensationalism is Scriptural, but it is also true that some early dispensationalists made unclear statements on these topics, often as an overreaction to covenant theology.

    Thanks again.

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16. Dr. Ross,

    First of all, I want to apologize again for a misstatement I made earlier. When I said "approval", I meant agreement. John told us in 1 John 4 to try the spirits whether they be of God. It is good to confirm that we agree, right?

    What you say about "physical people of God" makes absolutely no sense. I am a physical person. Are you saying there are non-physical people. Or are you suggesting some kind of non-physical community like an invisible church?

    What exactly do you mean by this, please? Can you please describe for me what you mean? Where do you get this "physical" vs. "non-physical" and what Scripture reference are you using as a basis for that distinction? I would like very much to know so I can study it more if there is an actual Biblical reference for that doctrine that you can give me right now.

    As far as Israel being saved, of course as Paul says in Romans 11, all Israel shall be saved. Some of those whom God foreknows to be part of his people may not be saved yet, but they will be. And, I can only thank the Lord God for providing that assurance. As it also says, He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob, which signifies the removal from the people of God of unbelievers. See Zechariah 14:21.

    I cannot imagine how many people are turned away at the barrier of the idea that some ungodly, Christ-rejecting people are the true people of God. Like I said earlier, I have heard that false doctrine before; People use corrupt Bible versions like the NKJV to support it (see how it changes Genesis 22:17 from "his seed shall possess the gate of his enemies" to "their descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies" despite what Paul says while quoting it in Galatians 3:16). There have been many falsifications of doctrine to support such an innovation (as I mentioned in my previous post) regarding making God's people be Christ-rejectors. Are you also one of them? I know I was turned and confused by it, as well as the false Bible versions issue, which are also altered to support that false doctrine. But John said in 2 John v. 11, "he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." He also said in 1 John 2:23 that "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father." To pretend otherwise is disobedient.

    I know that it brings in a lot of money to go with the popular new formula, especially here in America. But how can anyone exchange lost souls for material benefits? Can you even fathom that? How can we turn someone away by not telling them the truth that they can be made nigh to this by the blood of Christ, and instead take the title giving it to ungodly deceivers? As Christ says in Revelation 2:9, the synagogue of Satan themselves say that they are Jews, and are not. Their existence is a fulfillment of that very prophecy. If you bid them godspeed you become partaker of their evil deeds, as John says. How can someone let lost people like I was until very recently stay completely in the dark about this, I will never understand – except that the love of money really is the root of all evils. I just cannot stand the idea that lost people are turned away by this.

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17. Hi again,

    It is unfortunate, I find, that Dr. Ross and others do not want to have a Scriptural discussion about this issue, despite being so outspoken about it in other circumstances. I know this is a busy season, but we should know what is important is to be able to provide an answer to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is in you, and to be instant in season, out of season, to preach the word, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

    It is unfortunate that we apparently could not have that discussion. But what is the only thing you do when you see false doctrine, regardless of how it's defended; the sword of the word is the only offensive weapon in the armor of God. You take the sharp end and plunge it through. That is what I have done here. And this is true regardless of how it's reacted to.

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18. Andrew,

    Thomas doesn't usually duck things, so I don't think he did here. I would assume he just missed your comment. I haven't been keeping up with it, because it was between you and him, and I can't keep up with everything. I still haven't even answered the email you sent me awhile back, partly because it could turn into a very long involved conversation. I need to revisit it.

    I've used the terminology, partly because it is in the KJV five times. In Hebrews 11:25, Moses chose rather to suffer affliction with the "people of God." But then you have "his people," such as Matthew 1:21, save "his people" from their sins. That's obviously directly related. Were "his people" always saved? People in their sins, who need to be saved, seem to still be "his people." In Ezekiel 18:4, God says, "all souls are mine," so if God says people are "his people," he can say that, and they are still not saved people. I think it must be taken in its context, this kind of language. In the Old Testament, when God says, "my people," are they always saved, Andrew? It's got to be interpreted in its context.

    I would take Thomas's spiritual people versus physical people as distinguishing between Israel and the Israel of God. Aren't those two distinguished in the NT? The family of God, for instance, is a salvific distinction, not an ecclesiological one. Sure, every person has a human spirit, but he's called the natural man when he isn't saved, versus the spiritual man in 1 Corinthians. Have you noticed that? The church isn't universal, but the family of God is spread out all over the earth.

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19. Hi Pastor Brandenburg,

    Appreciate your advice here. One of the instances which you mention is contained in 1 Peter 2:9-10, and I think this is central to the proper Biblical distinction, because Peter here makes a reference to an equivalent Old Testament passage, Hosea 2:23. I submit that plays an important part in understanding the true context of Paul in Romans 11, which is at the center of this.

    Similarly, Paul makes a reference to a very similar, but not exactly the same, passage also in Hosea (Hos. 1:10) in the prelude to this over in Romans 9:24-26. So the dual references 1 Peter 2:9-10 and Romans 9:24-26 should each be taken as they related to Hosea 2:23 and Hosea 1:10 respectively. The people of God were not before but now are his people, according to all four of these. Yet, furthermore you have many instances where God, as it says, "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done," speaks – in this case with respect to the election (Eph. 1). 2 Timothy 1:9 says "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,"

    Yet there is no signal of a distinction if you read Hosea 1:10, it simply says "the children of Israel." I think you know another passage somewhere in the middle of Jeremiah that also makes no distinctions. Similarly, Paul makes no distinction between either group in this case, in Romans 9:24-26, which is made even more explicit because he just got finished talking about his nation (according to the flesh) in verses 1-5. The genetics is very very important insofar as it relates to the genealogy of Christ, which we have in Matthew 1. Yet when it comes to receiving the inheritance… see Galatians 3 and 4. It is only his genetics actually, not anyone else's that has any bearing here. If it were otherwise, we would see criteria in the Bible to determine who is part of Israel or not. It is fulfilled that the wicked who ultimately deny Christ our Lord (see Isaiah 42:1, 44:1-5, 45:4) will not be counted as his people but actually named as gentiles, see the parallel between Isaiah 49:23, Revelation 3:9, (compare also Revelation 11:2 with Psalm 37:34).

    "Were "his people" always saved?"
    In Matthew 1:21 I am willing to grant this may be referring to the fact Christ came first to the Jews as this was part of his fulfillment of prophecy. That's the same people Paul referred to in Romans 9:1-5. I see nothing contradictory here; I just doubt that the people today calling themselves that have any special claim, since I have never seen where such a claim exists outside Christ (2 Cor. 6:18, Rev. 21:7, Galatians 4:7).

    "In the Old Testament, when God says, "my people," are they always saved, Andrew?"
    It may be referring to the institution of the nation of Israel as it existed up until Christ. It may also be referring to only God's foreknown saved people within that, and not to interlopers ("them that forsake the holy covenant", cf. Dan. 11:30).

    "Aren't those two distinguished in the NT?"
    Yes, such as in Romans 9:24-25 where they are mentioned as both being in his people. Also distinguished in a spiritual way in Galatians 4:28-31 as one being true and the other false. Is there a sort of succession of the spirit of Christ-denial that existed with the Pharisees? Yes, I would say so. I would say this is the spiritual succession that leads to the synagogue of Satan that exists today, but as far as God is concerned he calls them gentiles in his book even if the world may think otherwise.

    Thanks for the questions, Pastor, I hope this helped. It is never a pleasant thing to go out all by myself like this but these words mean a lot to me and I want people to believe and obey what God said in 1 John 2:23 and 2 John v. 11, that is the truth.

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20. Hi Andrew,

    Texts such as:

    Psa. 81:11 But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me.
    Is. 1:3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master’s crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.
    Is. 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.

    and many others use "my people" for people who are physically descended from Jacob/Israel but are unconverted.

    The Abrahamic covenant blessings are not personally appropriated by unbelieving physical descendants of Jacob but they pass them down, and oppressing physical Israel still brings judgment from God, even as in the OT He punished Assyria, Babylon, etc. for what they did to Israel even though they were His means of chastening them.

    I don't have time right now to discuss the issue more, but on this topic a work such as Ryrie's book on dispensationalism is helpful, although it is not infallible.

    Thank you.

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