For decades now—and with great success—cultural elites have
been pushing the normalization of the abomination of sodomy. We have now gotten to the point where
sodomites are being allowed to “marry,” and the normalization of homosexuality—with
the related marginalization of Biblical Christianity—continues at a ferocious
pace. Bible-believing Baptist churches,
and other Christian conservatives, stand against sodomite “marriage” with one
voice—but have we, too, been influenced by the cultural pressure for the
normalization of sodomy?
been pushing the normalization of the abomination of sodomy. We have now gotten to the point where
sodomites are being allowed to “marry,” and the normalization of homosexuality—with
the related marginalization of Biblical Christianity—continues at a ferocious
pace. Bible-believing Baptist churches,
and other Christian conservatives, stand against sodomite “marriage” with one
voice—but have we, too, been influenced by the cultural pressure for the
normalization of sodomy?
Let me state, first of all, that I am against reconstructionism,
against Presbyterian theonomy, against the Roman Church-State and Calvin’s
Geneva, against focusing on politics instead of gospel preaching. I am for NT Baptist churches,
dispensationalism, freedom of religion, preaching the gospel to every creature
as our focus, and so on. I agree that
homosexuals can be saved and rejoice if they come to church services and hear
the gospel. I am not afraid of
homosexuals (that is, I am not “homophobic”) nor do I hate people who are
involved in that sin. I recently did a series of evangelistic Bible studies
with a homosexual man who had all kinds of filthy pictures posted all over his
house on the wall. My fellow Baptists
and I were kind to him, showed him Christian love, invited him to church, and
even invited him over to our house for lunch.
There were various times when he needed a ride, since he didn’t have a
car, and a ride was offered on our part and was accepted on his. Unfortunately, after spending a number of
hours with him patiently giving him the gospel and dealing with his objections,
while he was, I believe, convicted at various points, he was not willing to repent
of his sodomy—at least not as of my writing this post. I have even shed tears over his unconverted
condition. He knows we care for him,
and for others involved in his sin. Our
church has given the gospel to many sodomites (and, naturally, very many people
not guilty of that perversion) through house-to-house evangelism and mass
evangelism at events where large groups of people are gathered together,
whether a State fair with large numbers of normal unconverted people or a
“Pridefest” with large numbers of sodomites.
We have sought to speak kindly and respectfully to people at all such
venues and give soft answers that turn away wrath when ridiculed, cursed at,
threatened and so on. While bold
proclamation of the gospel will often bring opposition, we have not sought to
whip up unnecessary opposition as some, unfortunately, do at such events. I even grew up in San Francisco and have
friends from my youth as an unconverted person who are homosexuals, and we seek
to be kind to them and show them Christian love and give them the gospel. We have sent them cards on special occasions,
given them gifts, and so on. The writer
of this post is not some crazy person filled with a deep hatred for
homosexuals—indeed, if you who read this post don’t like what the following
paragraphs say, before you say that I hate homosexuals, you ought to consider
how much time you spend giving them the gospel—if you don’t give them the
gospel, perhaps I am the one that loves them, and you are the one that hates
them. If you are afraid to talk to them because of their gross sin, but I speak
to them politely and treat them like human beings created in God’s image, like
people who have eternal souls that need to be saved just as my own sinful soul
was saved, perhaps you are the one that hates them while I love them.
against Presbyterian theonomy, against the Roman Church-State and Calvin’s
Geneva, against focusing on politics instead of gospel preaching. I am for NT Baptist churches,
dispensationalism, freedom of religion, preaching the gospel to every creature
as our focus, and so on. I agree that
homosexuals can be saved and rejoice if they come to church services and hear
the gospel. I am not afraid of
homosexuals (that is, I am not “homophobic”) nor do I hate people who are
involved in that sin. I recently did a series of evangelistic Bible studies
with a homosexual man who had all kinds of filthy pictures posted all over his
house on the wall. My fellow Baptists
and I were kind to him, showed him Christian love, invited him to church, and
even invited him over to our house for lunch.
There were various times when he needed a ride, since he didn’t have a
car, and a ride was offered on our part and was accepted on his. Unfortunately, after spending a number of
hours with him patiently giving him the gospel and dealing with his objections,
while he was, I believe, convicted at various points, he was not willing to repent
of his sodomy—at least not as of my writing this post. I have even shed tears over his unconverted
condition. He knows we care for him,
and for others involved in his sin. Our
church has given the gospel to many sodomites (and, naturally, very many people
not guilty of that perversion) through house-to-house evangelism and mass
evangelism at events where large groups of people are gathered together,
whether a State fair with large numbers of normal unconverted people or a
“Pridefest” with large numbers of sodomites.
We have sought to speak kindly and respectfully to people at all such
venues and give soft answers that turn away wrath when ridiculed, cursed at,
threatened and so on. While bold
proclamation of the gospel will often bring opposition, we have not sought to
whip up unnecessary opposition as some, unfortunately, do at such events. I even grew up in San Francisco and have
friends from my youth as an unconverted person who are homosexuals, and we seek
to be kind to them and show them Christian love and give them the gospel. We have sent them cards on special occasions,
given them gifts, and so on. The writer
of this post is not some crazy person filled with a deep hatred for
homosexuals—indeed, if you who read this post don’t like what the following
paragraphs say, before you say that I hate homosexuals, you ought to consider
how much time you spend giving them the gospel—if you don’t give them the
gospel, perhaps I am the one that loves them, and you are the one that hates
them. If you are afraid to talk to them because of their gross sin, but I speak
to them politely and treat them like human beings created in God’s image, like
people who have eternal souls that need to be saved just as my own sinful soul
was saved, perhaps you are the one that hates them while I love them.
With all of the above stated as an introduction, there is no
reason why God’s laws in Israel about the State putting sodomites to death (or
adulterers, for that matter, Lev 20:10) would be bad laws today. God’s laws are
good laws—very good, glorious, and wonderful laws—the best possible laws. What
does Scripture say is the responsibility of the State toward those who engage
in homosexuality?
reason why God’s laws in Israel about the State putting sodomites to death (or
adulterers, for that matter, Lev 20:10) would be bad laws today. God’s laws are
good laws—very good, glorious, and wonderful laws—the best possible laws. What
does Scripture say is the responsibility of the State toward those who engage
in homosexuality?
“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman,
both of them have committed an abomination:
they shall surely be put to death;
their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13)
both of them have committed an abomination:
they shall surely be put to death;
their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13)
I am happy if thieves attend church to hear the Bible,
although the State should punish theft.
I am happy to preach the gospel to murderers, whether in a prison
ministry or elsewhere, but I still agree with Scripture that murderers should
be executed by the State. Similarly, we
should show love as individuals, and be part of a church that shows love to
sodomites, while recognizing that, ideally, the State should enforce a death
penalty for sodomy. We should want a
godly government that takes away the sodomites out of the land, as godly
government did of old (1 Kings 15:12; 22:46).
The Passover and other ceremonial laws are types of Christ which have
been abolished, but the death penalty for sodomy that God gave Israel is not a
type of anything and has not been abolished—it is valid for today. How could we know what laws would be good for
the State to enact if we can’t listen to the Bible? Can we not learn anything about what a godly
government is like from the laws God gave the Hebrew republic?
although the State should punish theft.
I am happy to preach the gospel to murderers, whether in a prison
ministry or elsewhere, but I still agree with Scripture that murderers should
be executed by the State. Similarly, we
should show love as individuals, and be part of a church that shows love to
sodomites, while recognizing that, ideally, the State should enforce a death
penalty for sodomy. We should want a
godly government that takes away the sodomites out of the land, as godly
government did of old (1 Kings 15:12; 22:46).
The Passover and other ceremonial laws are types of Christ which have
been abolished, but the death penalty for sodomy that God gave Israel is not a
type of anything and has not been abolished—it is valid for today. How could we know what laws would be good for
the State to enact if we can’t listen to the Bible? Can we not learn anything about what a godly
government is like from the laws God gave the Hebrew republic?
Furthermore, before the Mosaic law, Scripture states that
that among the pre-law Gentiles such as Job, adultery was “an heinous crime;
yea, it is an iniquity to be punished by the judges” (Job 31:11)? If adultery is righteously punished by a
Gentile State, is not the greater sin of sodomy also? Scripture does not teach that the
criminalization of sexual iniquities such as sodomy and adultery are things
that the State should just ignore. They
should be illegal, and they should be punished the way God punished them in the
Bible.
that among the pre-law Gentiles such as Job, adultery was “an heinous crime;
yea, it is an iniquity to be punished by the judges” (Job 31:11)? If adultery is righteously punished by a
Gentile State, is not the greater sin of sodomy also? Scripture does not teach that the
criminalization of sexual iniquities such as sodomy and adultery are things
that the State should just ignore. They
should be illegal, and they should be punished the way God punished them in the
Bible.
Since both Jews and Gentiles in Scripture recognized that sexual
perversions were Biblically described as criminal and/or worthy of death, it
would be good law, were Biblical values practiced (as they are not likely to be
in the USA again before the Rapture, unless there is a great national revival),
to have a death penalty for sodomy. A
death penalty for sodomy would result in far fewer dear people deciding they
were “born that way,” hardening themselves to the gospel, and dying young of
AIDS—many lives would be saved. What is
more, God be glorified as more of His Word was put in practice. Sodomites would also refrain from being
proud, but be fearful instead because of their sin, and be more willing to hear
and receive the gospel of the grace of God.
A death penalty for sodomy would be a good law.
perversions were Biblically described as criminal and/or worthy of death, it
would be good law, were Biblical values practiced (as they are not likely to be
in the USA again before the Rapture, unless there is a great national revival),
to have a death penalty for sodomy. A
death penalty for sodomy would result in far fewer dear people deciding they
were “born that way,” hardening themselves to the gospel, and dying young of
AIDS—many lives would be saved. What is
more, God be glorified as more of His Word was put in practice. Sodomites would also refrain from being
proud, but be fearful instead because of their sin, and be more willing to hear
and receive the gospel of the grace of God.
A death penalty for sodomy would be a good law.
To reiterate, I am not at all arguing for people being
vigilantes or taking the law into their own hands. The individual Christian’s duty is to love
and do good to all men, including sodomites.
I am arguing that the State should re-criminalize sodomy and enforce a
death penalty for those that commit it and are found guilty after due process
of law.
vigilantes or taking the law into their own hands. The individual Christian’s duty is to love
and do good to all men, including sodomites.
I am arguing that the State should re-criminalize sodomy and enforce a
death penalty for those that commit it and are found guilty after due process
of law.
I would also like to point out that if what I have said seems
“extreme” or “wrong” or “un-Christian” to you—but you cannot refute it from
Scripture—that you have been influenced by our culture’s incessant drumbeat for
the normalization of sodomy. It was only
in 2003—merely ten years ago—that our activist Supreme Court in Lawrence v.
Texas struck down American laws declaring sodomy illegal, reversing its own
1986 ruling in Bowers v. Hardwick that upheld the constitutionality of American
anti-sodomy laws. Our culture has slid
towards Sodom very quickly in these last ten years, and Christians have been
caught up in it. You are one of them, if
you can’t refute this post Biblically, but are not willing to agree with it.
“extreme” or “wrong” or “un-Christian” to you—but you cannot refute it from
Scripture—that you have been influenced by our culture’s incessant drumbeat for
the normalization of sodomy. It was only
in 2003—merely ten years ago—that our activist Supreme Court in Lawrence v.
Texas struck down American laws declaring sodomy illegal, reversing its own
1986 ruling in Bowers v. Hardwick that upheld the constitutionality of American
anti-sodomy laws. Our culture has slid
towards Sodom very quickly in these last ten years, and Christians have been
caught up in it. You are one of them, if
you can’t refute this post Biblically, but are not willing to agree with it.
If you think that what I have said is true, but it ought not
to be preached because people won’t like it, you also have been influenced by
our evil culture. While our country
descends ever further into the pit, let the Lord’s true churches pass down all
the truth and reject all unbiblical cultural influences. It might cost you something. It is still okay
to believe that marriage is between one man and one woman, but if you agree
with this post, and people at work find out, you might lose your job. Nevertheless, Bible-believing churches need
to recognize and unashamedly preach and teach all the truths in the Bible, both
those that pertain to the individual’s responsibility to do good and act kindly
towards sodomites, and those that pertain to the State’s responsibility to
execute those found guilty, after due process of law, of this unspeakable
perversion.
to be preached because people won’t like it, you also have been influenced by
our evil culture. While our country
descends ever further into the pit, let the Lord’s true churches pass down all
the truth and reject all unbiblical cultural influences. It might cost you something. It is still okay
to believe that marriage is between one man and one woman, but if you agree
with this post, and people at work find out, you might lose your job. Nevertheless, Bible-believing churches need
to recognize and unashamedly preach and teach all the truths in the Bible, both
those that pertain to the individual’s responsibility to do good and act kindly
towards sodomites, and those that pertain to the State’s responsibility to
execute those found guilty, after due process of law, of this unspeakable
perversion.
-TDR
By the way, a believer could be in the apartment of the person mentioned in this post without sin – what he had on his walls would only be disgusting to a born-again man.
Hi Thomas,
I think what you need to demonstrate in order to really prove your point is that all governments everywhere are responsible to enforce the laws of theocratic Israel. Romans 13 would be helpful, but you would face the problem of where the line should be drawn (adultery yes, sabbath violation no?) as well as the fact that Jesus effective broadened the definition of, for instance, adultery (physical aduletry yes, adultery of the heart, no?).
If you truly believed the state should execute homosexuals, then when was the last time you petitioned your legislators to create such a law?
Dear D4,
I believe the burden of proof is on those who say that we are not to follow civil law that is not typological in the law given to Israel. Furthermore, we see that sexual sin was punished even in Gentile governments from the Job text. Finally, Jesus did not broaden the definition of adultery – the Old Testament text itself taught that heart sin is sin. In the Old Testament heart sin was not punished by the state, but the outward acts were. Internal lust should not be punished by the state, but sodomy should be in its outward act. Thanks for the comment.
By the way, I think New Testament principles and the theocratic nature of Israel require that violations of the first table of the 10 Commandments should not be punished by the Gentile state, while violations of the second table should be when they were punished in Israel. That is, adultery should be punished, but not Sabbath violation.
Dear Molon,
I think it is important to petition government officials, but when there is no chance whatsoever that they will listen to what you're going to say, spending more time on what they might actually listen to makes more sense. I therefore petition them on matters such as marriage, abortion, free markets, and so on, and seek to make disciples through my church so that in the long term a more godly society with more people that care about the Bible can come into existence.
At the same time, I'm not ashamed of anything in the Bible and will happily confess its teachings in any setting in an appropriate manner, by God's grace.
Mr. Ross,
Could you please take a moment and clarify what it is you would have your reader to do as a response to this article?
Thanks in advance,
Bob
Readers should accept what the Bible says on this topic and preach the whole counsel of God, preserving the truth in New Testament churches.
Why is it so hard for people like you who claim to profess Christ's grace while proposing state sanctioned murder to remember simple gospel stories like that about Jesus and the woman accused of adultery? And if that doesn't convince you why don't you just pack up and move to Iran or Saudi Arabia where they do in fact execute homosexuals? You say that you spend so much time talking to gay people because you love them. Yet you want them executed. Your "love" is hollow. What if it were your son, your brother, your nephew? Reminds me exactly of Paul's words: If I speak in the tongues of men or angels but have no love, I am only a resounding gong or clanging cymbal.
Dear Daniel,
The story of the woman taken in adultery in John eight does not relate to what the government should do, but what individuals are responsible to do. Furthermore, there was not a just legal procedure in John eight. Where was the man?
The command to love your neighbor as yourself is found in Leviticus 19. Yet Israel was clearly commanded to execute homosexuals. Did anybody have love in the Old Testament?
We need to evaluate these things based on Scripture, not emotion or culture.
Thanks for the comment.
Furthermore, nothing in John eight that Christ says states or implies that he wished to overturn the judicial law of the Old Testament.
If I had a brother or son that was a murderer, I certainly would feel terrible about the death penalty. That does not mean that I would favor the abolition of that penalty or any other civil penalty.
If you have spent anytime with homosexuals you would know that the Bible is correct. Homosexuality is an abomination.
One more thing concerning John 8.
Note that Christ did not say, "nobody should
stone adulterers any more, it is now wrong–
I overturn the civil law," but "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her," that is, "He that has been righteous in this civil case–and where is the man?–let him first cast a stone." He did not disagree with or argue one tittle against the civil OT law for adultery. On the other hand, since the Romans did not give the Jews the power
to exceute people, had Christ said, "Stone her!" He would have been in revolt against the constituted government, which was a violation of the Biblical principle enunciated in Romans 13, and would have led the Romans to take Him and execute Him for a political offence, contrary to the plan of God for His crucifixion. That was the dilemma the Jews sought to put Christ into– either contradict the OT, and so eliminate the possibility that He was the Messiah, or say to kill the woman, in which case they could have gotten the Romans to execute Him for rebelling against the civil magistrate. Christ's answer avoided their trap without saying that the civil legislation on adultery was wrong in any way.
This world is of the people = rule of democracy.This world votes with it‘s own idolatorus feet to reap it‘s own harvest of self destruction. All there is to do is accept REV.22v11