51 Comments

1. What do you recommend we do when said medical associations and health department advisers clearly deny science when they tell us that men can become women, that sodomite sex can be healthy, that abortion is not murder, that so-called climate change is a health crisis, that the 2nd amendment is a health threat, that the china-flu jab works, that a little cloth mask has some ability to stop a virus… and these same groups almost universally deny the Creator, worship and serve their lusts, and fulfill Romans 1 and other passages that expose reprobates. They may be “peer reviewed” but when they are the peers doing the reviewing I would be a fool to not carefully weigh any advice they give me concerning my health. I wish, I really do wish, that we could believe that these “experts” just want to help us and have our best interests at heart. But, I also know that this world is full of lust (1 John 2) and there is this matter of corruption in the world through lust (2 Peter 1) and the whole world lieth in wickedness (1 John) and the spirit of Anti-Christ is at work (1 John) and the “mystery of iniquity” is also at work (2 Thessalonians 2)… I am not going to naively think that the scientists (many of whom engage themselves in “science falsely so-called” (1 Timothy)) are all about “just the facts, ma’am.” Sadly, many of them as of late seem to be more of the spirit of Simon and Elymas, the sorcerers of Acts, than of the spirit of truth.

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2. Dear Bro Mitchell,

   Thanks for dropping by.

   Certainly unconverted people wish to follow their own lusts. However, that does not prevent them from being able to do good science; unfortunately, for example, Chinese scientists who are very widely pro-abortion atheists have developed hypersonic rockets that are better than what we have right now. I have no idea what the beliefs are of the people who engineered the plane that I trust my life to if I fly somewhere, or the beliefs of the people who designed my car, but even if they were unbelievers with bad beliefs, they still were able to do good science by God’s common grace.

   I would follow Biblical principles for evaluating data discussed in the seven parts of this study or completely here:

   https://faithsaves.net/conspiracy/

   Let’s take a real world example. The study here:

   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33378609/

   on PubMed claims that the vaccine in question for COVID had a 94.1% effectiveness rate among clinical trial participants. The medical professionals working on the study were:

   Lindsey R Baden 1 , Hana M El Sahly 1 , Brandon Essink 1 , Karen Kotloff 1 , Sharon Frey 1 , Rick Novak 1 , David Diemert 1 , Stephen A Spector 1 , Nadine Rouphael 1 , C Buddy Creech 1 , John McGettigan 1 , Shishir Khetan 1 , Nathan Segall 1 , Joel Solis 1 , Adam Brosz 1 , Carlos Fierro 1 , Howard Schwartz 1 , Kathleen Neuzil 1 , Larry Corey 1 , Peter Gilbert 1 , Holly Janes 1 , Dean Follmann 1 , Mary Marovich 1 , John Mascola 1 , Laura Polakowski 1 , Julie Ledgerwood 1 , Barney S Graham 1 , Hamilton Bennett 1 , Rolando Pajon 1 , Conor Knightly 1 , Brett Leav 1 , Weiping Deng 1 , Honghong Zhou 1 , Shu Han 1 , Melanie Ivarsson 1 , Jacqueline Miller 1 , Tal Zaks 1 , COVE Study Group

   I would ask myself: “Do I have evidence that these medical professionals are all in favor of transgender ideology, and that this belief has led them to fraudulently modify the results of their COVID study on over 30,000 people? Do I have evidence that they are willing to risk career-ending opprobrium for such actions? Do I have evidence that the people who reviewed their study are also willing to risk career-ending opprobrium for fraudulently modifying data?” I would ask myself questions like these for the many studies on the effectiveness of the COVID vaccines that have pointed to the conclusion that vaccinated people have about 17% the chance of getting COVID and 7% the chance of dying from COVID as compared to the unvaccinated:

   https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status

   If I did not have clear evidence that study after study of this kind was fraudulent, I would assume that they are accurate, as the self-interested selfishness of the (likely) unconverted people who were working on the studies would make them be honest about what they recorded.

   I would ask myself if the number of people involved in trying to cover up alleged forged misinformation about the vaccines could successfully keep the secret in the 165 countries in the world among hundreds of thousands of people with conflicting interests.

   I would ask myself why organizations like the Christian Medical Association, which is against sodomy, transgender perversion, etc. supports the mainstream scientific view that the vaccines are highly (but not 100%, just like all vaccines) effective at reducing the likelihood both of getting COVID and of getting serious illness:

   https://cmda.org/coronavirus/

   Those are the sorts of questions I would ask to make sure I was accurately evaluating information, and I would make sure to read the best arguments on both sides of medical issues.

   Thanks for stopping by, and the Lord bless you!

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3. Brother Ross,

   You make a very strange comparison. I referred to groups of people who are supposed to be experts concerning the human body, health, biology, etc. and the fact that many of the “experts” I am being told to trust deny fundamental realities concerning health, biology, etc. You responded by bringing up whether or not an airplane pilot has “bad beliefs” or the example of a rocket developer who is pro-abortion. I would think the proper comparison would be an airplane pilot who denies fundamentals of flight, gravity, thrust, etc. And if there is such a pilot, then, yes, I would be skeptical of his advice concerning flight.

   I do not espouse that there is a grand conspiracy to get everyone a Wuhan-flu jab so that the population dies off or something like that. I just know that humans are gonna human and it is hard for any human to admit their plan didn’t work. This is especially true when they have made incredible promises and doled out hopium to the masses, have become pop-culture icons (Fauci), and have basically staked their identity on the matter.
   The jab isn’t getting it done. The CDC and doctors around the world are admitting that if you get jabbed, double-jabbed, triple-jabbed, or just become a full-on porcupine, you can still get the Wu-flu and you can still spread it.

   I don’t have a “conspiracy theory.” By the way I find that terminology is often just a rhetorical device for (whatever) motive. What I have is enough sense to look at the data we have now (not the early tests of a comparatively small group of people) and see that the jab has not done what it was marketed to do. It is ok to admit something didn’t work out as planned. At some point it is obvious, even to the non-expert, non-tailor, little boy that “the emperor has no clothes.” Maybe the little boy is a bodybuilder and not a tailor, but he can see and reach a sound conclusion. I wouldn’t try to get him to deny the sight and discernment the Lord gave him.

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4. Hi,

   We live in a world more than ever of disinformation and lies. The lie making divides, it seems, into two factions. One side tells the biggest lies, the whopper lies, monumental lies, to the point where they represent “the lie.” The other side, the one I happen to be on if it divides into two sides, can be prey to lies too. I think of Steven Anderson as an example. He’s not taking his people from “the lie” side, but he does great damage on my side, perhaps our side. There is also all of the revivalist Baptists and even the right winged Calvary Chapel types, where God talks to them. In the bigger picture, not on “the lie” side, let’s say Clarence Thomas, is a Jesuit Roman Catholic. You’ve got your Ruckmanite types, who say that scripture wasn’t preserved, except in a kind of ideological manner in the English translation. The same may say that the Holy Spirit regularly comes down and visits in a unique way, sending people to experiences that are lies.

   “The lie” side, not my side, says that a boy is a girl, that gender is fluid, that the baby isn’t a person until he comes home from the hospital, that all white people are racists, etc. They are the CRT proponents. They are exposed in this article by a homosexual of all things:
   https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-real-disinformation-agents-watch
   “The lie” side is exaggerating what happened on January 6. They give a pass to the non-stop rioting all of the summer before, where dozens died. No one died on January 6, except on our side, an unarmed woman shot and then covered up, and we know now based on good information that the FBI and CIA had people in with the crowd, encouraging them to do unlawful things, like someone infiltrating a Moslem cell and encouraging terrorist acts in order to make a later arrest. It is Hitler starting the fire on the Reichstag and blaming it on the Communists.

   Here’s an article just today that relates to that: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/12/20/why_the_jan_6_inquisition_is_the_real_enemy_of_democracy_146913.html

   It’s hard to accept anything that “the lie” side says. Consider this article on Joe Biden, one of the great liars of American history. https://thefederalist.com/2021/12/16/12-times-joe-biden-completely-made-up-stories-lied-or-said-something-crazy/
   At one point, Trump said, get the vaccine, celebtrated the vaccine, wanted credit for the vaccine, so the lie side said they weren’t getting the vaccine. Then Trump “lost,” and I don’t believe he lost. Thomas may be on a different side on that. I don’t know how much the Dominion computer election programs were part of that, but for sure ballot harvesting and ballot dumping, where major fraud occurred. Biden did not get that many votes. “The lie” side calls this “the lie.”

   The side I’m on wants borders. They want distinctions. They would be the parents challenging the school boards. They want the statues kept up.

   The lie side says nothing, absolutely nothing, about record breaking homicide rates in the inner cities: https://glennloury.substack.com/p/rising-violence-in-philadelphia
   Isn’t that a conspiracy?

   But now the left mandates the vaccine. They would close churches if they could. Those of the other faction, which I would be in there, think something’s afoot. They question the vaccine. Isn’t that understandable? With the conditions we have on the ground, it’s no wonder this is happening. Some of these same people though are also fooled in a massive way by lies within their faction, which could be more dangerous lies than the ones they don’t want to believe.

   By the way, I don’t think Trump is part of the conspiracy when he does this: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/12/20/trump_got_covid_booster_shot_youre_playing_into_their_hands_when_you_doubt_the_vaccine.html

   Because of all I’ve written above, more than every we need discernment from scripture in an age where there is the least I’ve ever seen. I think Thomas has that same heart, that people will know how to have discernment. I do think it’s possible though that people will think that Thomas, you’re sucked into the conspiracy, because of the one sided nature of your writing. It seems to lean toward the wrong faction. More balance would be more persuasive, but maybe I’m wrong.

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5. Brother Ross,
   Of all the established and advancing scientific fields, medicine has always been one of the most challenging and changing fields of study. While we were sending men out into the atmosphere in spaceships, we were still performing lobotomies. We hadn’t abandoned bloodletting too far before that. Our medical world still offers psych drugs for behavioral problems on a large scale. We know that most cases would be solved with a “renewing” of the mind (Romans 12:2). The side effects for the average prescription get too close to a doctoral dissertation in length. If they didn’t go through the side affects so quickly the commercials would be more about the side affects than benefits.

   On a personal level, I have for a long time had confidence in medical science. It has been slightly shaken through the years but the events over the past 1.5 to 2 years has me questioning a lot more.

   We know that “the love of money is the root of all evil” (1 Timothy 6:10) and we also know what motivates man in his lost state, “the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16). With a reasonable amount of confidence I can say that in large the men of engineering and research fields were not performing their duties for the glory of God but for their own ambitions. We are ok with that because they are not forcing us to join their efforts. We just use their advancements to the best of our ability for the glory of God. Many in our churches are employed by these same men and work for the glory of God. We fly in planes to preach the gospel or encourage sister churches.

   But when men with political and other conflicts of interest start mandating their advancements on a global scale “for the better good” and when this has potential affects on my ability to serve God and the abilities of others, I must pause. Those who share my concerns like Brother Mitchell are not assuming to know more than medical professionals, but this reeks strongly of political and financial strong-arming. The most adamant in this mandate are also some of the most wicked among us.

   In your link with a listing of professional medical researchers almost half of them had major conflicts of interest.
   “Conflict of interest statement: Dr. Baden reports being funded by the NIH to conduct clinical trials in collaboration with Crucell/Janssen and Moderna; Dr. Rouphael, receiving grant support from Pfizer, Merck, Sanofi–Pasteur, Eli Lilly, and Quidel; Dr. Creech, receiving grant support from Merck, consulting fees from Horizon Pharma and GSK, and fees for serving on a data and safety monitoring board from Astellas; Dr. Neuzil, receiving grant support from Pfizer; Dr. Graham, holding pending patent WO/2018/081318 on prefusion coronavirus spike proteins and their use and pending patent 62/972,886 on 2019-nCoV vaccine; Dr. Bennett, being employed by and owning stock and stock options in Moderna; Dr. Pajon, being employed by and owning stock in Moderna; Dr. Knightly, being employed by and owning stock and stock options in Moderna; Drs. Leav, Deng, and Zhou being employees of Moderna; Dr. Han, being employed by and owning stock and stock options in Moderna; Dr. Ivarsson, being employed by and owning share options in Moderna; Dr. Miller, being employed by and owning stock and stock options in Moderna; and Dr. Zaks, being employed by and owning stock options in Moderna. No other potential conflict of interest relevant to this article was reported.”

   So I have to ask myself, can I confidently put this into my body for the glory of God? “Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.” (1 Corinthians 10:31). This is a rushed injection with clinical trials that were expedited in an unprecedented time frame. The NFL has a vaccination rate of 94.6% and still have 126 players currently under covid protocols. We have a “vaccinated” lady that is one of our contacts who tested positive for covid about 2 months ago. The local hospital wouldn’t admit her unless she would stay for 5 days. When her five days had completed, they pushed her outside the hospital in the cold weather while still battling pneumonia so they could make room for another patient. We’ve seen a number of people test positive for covid after getting the injection, but we have not seen one person reinfected who had natural immunity.

   I will with charity and confidence trust those that recognize we are “fearfully and wonderfully made” and I will not be “puffed up” but those who do not think we are fearfully and wonderfully made will not have my confidence but rather my evangelism.
   “Charity…rejoiceth in the truth”

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6. Brother Bobby,

   Thanks for mentioning the point about the “conspiracy theory” terminology and about how it’s a rhetorical device. This is exactly my point that I made in the comment section back in part two of this series about how both sides should agree something is a conspiracy, else it’s just a device or a tool used to make one person’s claims look unreasonable. I find myself agreeing in principle with a lot of what’s being said by every single person. But in this particular case the vaccination and case rate data (from Israel) showed as early as July that boosters were going to be needed to keep transmission rates low – yet, our big bureaucracy continued for months past this point to misrepresent the shot as being “completely safe and effective.” This month we now have headlines coming out of stricter lockdown countries saying things like “Israeli Health Official Tells Public to Prepare For Endless Boosters: ‘We Will Need to Take The 4th Shot, The 5th Shot, The 6th Shot And The 7th'”

   It’s not effective if we are dropping to ground level transmission rates after a few months. But the CDC changed the definition of “vaccine” on September 2, 2021. Rather than admit they were wrong, they changed the working definition of the word “vaccine” on that day to say that a “vaccine” no longer has to provide immunity. In keeping with this new definition, the seasonal flu shot is now being called by them “the flu vaccine.” They also changed the definition of “anti-vaxxer” to mean anyone who is for any reason against mandating the shot (in Merriam-Webster). Don’t you see how wicked this is? And there wouldn’t even need to be an argument about this, people could just come to their own conclusions – except it is being mandated by various rogue actors (mainly zealous believers in this new woke ideology).

   In Australia, three teenagers were chased down by police for trying to escape from an “internment camp” in Howard Springs, Australia. Their crime? Being near someone who was covid positive and trying to escape the camp by climbing the fence. News articles there reassured readers that the “prisoners” had tested negative and there is not likely to be an impact on their community. What about the law-abiding teenagers who were being imprisoned against their will?

   Is it really for a virus whose average age of death is in the 70s, for which children are at virtually zero risk; where, according to the CDC, between 99.8 to 99.9 percent recover from it under the age of 50, and the average person who died while having it, according to the CDC, also had exactly 4.0 comorbidities? not one but four? Could the Australia situation be here if the legal environment (i.e. 2nd amendment) were different?

   What are the long term effects of taking an injection of mRNA two to four times per year for life? Is it really safer for our immune systems to live life in a bubble? If wearing masks was a matter of life and death and people really believed that, why aren’t we all wearing n90 masks? Most of us aren’t – we’re just being forced to keep up this charade. Anyone can see, if they will allow themselves to, what the real motivations of keeping this going are. It’s in all of the little benefits to special interests, to prevent us from living normally. That explains why a platform like Instagram would outright ban the phrase #naturalimmunity . Because the people promoting this are all in.

   Something doesn’t have to be a “conspiracy” or framed that way to be a grand lie. Usually the grand lie is done in plain sight. And as I explained in the comments section before, that is the case here.

   These are things to discuss before we cast the view we disagree with as a conspiracy, as we said earlier – not that I don’t agree with much of what you are saying in principle. The particulars in this case just don’t mesh. Remember what it says in Colossians 2:8,
   “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”

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7. Most importantly there is also an abortion angle to this situation. The mRNA shots were developed and tested on illegally aborted fetal cells, while two of the other “adenovirus” shots (J&J and Oxford/AstraZeneca) actually contain cells from said cell lines (called PER.C6 and HEK-93, respectively).

   I believe that, like with slavery-derived products, no good can come of this activity. Per Jeremiah 1 and Psalm 139 we see that an unborn child is still a person and a human being. They deserve Constitutional protections, and the Dobbs v. Jackson case which may decide in favor of that, Lord willing, is underway at this very moment. For that reason alone we should also understand that no good can come from something derived by that kind of policy of research. How is that really different than what other governments when they conducted experiments on unwilling human subjects in the 1940s? or how is it really different from slavery? Would God ever, possibly be pleased with this kind of activity? Not that long ago, there actually was a moratorium placed on exactly this kind of stem cell research, and with not dissimilar reasoning.

   For that reason I already believe these treatments are not going to be effective. I am especially against them being mandated by those that also favor abortion – that is like stacking one illegitimate experiment performed onto another – neither were obtained with voluntary consent. I also believe natural immunity is going to be the real driving factor in ending this, even if not credited as such.

   VAERS meanwhile reports 20,224 deaths, 106,129 hospitalizations and 965,841 adverse events due to COVID-19 vaccine through Dec. 20. See: https://openvaers.com/ These adverse reactions are not even being properly recorded, according to a temporary pause made by OSHA – they write on their website: “OSHA does not wish to have any appearance of discouraging workers from receiving COVID-19 vaccination, and also does not wish to disincentivize employers’ vaccination efforts. As a result, OSHA will not enforce 29 CFR 1904’s recording requirements to require any employers to record worker side effects from COVID-19 vaccination at least through May 2022. We will reevaluate the agency’s position at that time to determine the best course of action moving forward.”

   It has been estimated in one study (not yet peer-reviewed) that the real number of deaths caused by these shots may be up to twenty times higher than reported on VAERS. We could be looking at somewhere between the reported number of 20,224 deaths, and as high as 400k deaths, due to adverse reactions to the various coronavirus vaccine shots. This is of course a small percentage of the total number of doses administered. But it is not something to be downplayed when businesses and governments are not even held liable for the adverse reactions to the shots that they are mandating be taken. And then there is the question of culpability of the fact that every available vaccine is closely tied and associated to aborted fetal stem cells, either in research and testing – or actually containing the cells.

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8. Dear Bro Mitchell,

   Thanks for your reply.

   Why do you think the Christian Medical Association strongly supports COVID vaccination while opposing all the perversion you mentioned?

   People who say you should call a woman a man instead and so on are saying something very evil, but they are not denying that the “transgender man” still has female chromosomes, ovaries, etc. Are there any studies on PubMed saying that actual biological facts like chromosomes change? Are there any double-blind trials that they have faked to make such claims? If not, is this a good basis for concluding that actual clinical trials on vaccines have been faked? What if self-interest and selfishness in at least a very high percentage of researchers actually supports them NOT falsifying research because it would devastate their careers?

   I am not sure who was saying that the COVID vaccine or any vaccine (or antibodies from actually getting COVID either) would be 100% effective for all time against viruses that constantly mutate, but where are there double-blind trials that deny that someone is much less likely to get COVID and much less likely to die if one has been vaccinated, and is the actual evidence denying this superior to the evidence affirming the mainstream view? If the Christian Medical Association is correct, we would save hundreds of thousands of lives through vaccination, death rates going from a baseline to 7% of that baseline.

   Thank you.

   Thanks.

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9. In response to several above comments, please note that this series is about how to evaluate information. It is not about government mandates, churches being closed, and so on. I think very few people who read this blog believe churches should be closed, including me, obviously, and I also am very libertarian-leaning on government mandates.

   Also, when 97% of the US Senate, Trump, Biden, Pence, Harris, etc. have all gotten vaccinated, I don’t view not getting vaccinated as a stand for political liberty. I think people have liberty in Christ to make their own decisions. Whether or not the COVID vaccine greatly reduces the likelihood of dying from COVID and whether the government should mandate it are two very different questions. A speed limit of 5 MPH on the freeway would greatly reduce deaths from freeway accidents, but I don’t think a 5 MPH speed limit should be mandated.

   I am against rioting, violence, high murder rates, etc. in case anyone was wondering.

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10. Dear Bro Teale,

    I think it is very good that any even possible conflict of interest must be disclosed. If you think there are too many in that one, look for many similar studies from reputable journals on PubMed. If we have actual evidence that would stand up in a court (Isaiah 1:18 and cross refs, see parts 1 & 2 of this series) that the people are corrupting their results because of pro-transgender ideology, then we have good reasons to reject them. If not, then maybe we don’t.

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11. Hello Andrew. Could you let me know the strongest arguments you have read in favor of the position that the way you are using VAERS data is incorrect, and why you believe the arguments your use of VAERS is correct is better than those opposing arguments?

    Also, I defined “conspiracy theory” in response to your question as:

    For the purposes of this study, a conspiracy theory is defined as “a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators” (Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary. (Springfield, MA: Merriam-Webster, Inc., 2003).

    I think the abortion argument is the best one against vaccination. I believe it is insufficient for the reasons I explained here:

    https://kentbrandenburg.com/2021/04/30/why-i-got-covid-vaccine/

    If you disagree, don’t violate your conscience.

    Thanks.

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12. Please pardon the typos in some of my responses above. I am responding while doing a bunch of other things at the same time.

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13. Brother Ross,

    I know nothing of the Christian Medical Association, whether or not there are double-blind studies regarding chromosomes, etc. What I’m telling you is that you are encouraging your readers to “trust the experts” at a time when many, many of your fellow Christians and Americans have lost trust in the “experts” because the “experts” are either passively or actively going along with lies, lies, and more lies. All kinds of lies. Pastor Brandenburg did a great job fleshing out this line of thinking I’m talking about. This type of deception from the highest offices has happened multiple times in history and will certainly be happening in the Tribulation era that lies just around the bend following the Rapture. I don’t think that we are living in an age now where lies, deception, and evil manipulation of the masses won’t take place as long as we have great scientists who have studies they conduct and we just need to take them at their word regarding their studies and conclusions. Scientists lie too. Scientists have biases too. Scientists make mistakes and can be proud and can be persuaded to go a direction the truth doesn’t lead them. The opposite of the idea that we can just trust lost science leadership is clearly shown to be true all through the pages of Scripture. We are certainly living in a time where we must “prove all things” and “try the spirits.”

    Some rambling thoughts:
    The “experts” such as Fauci and Birx showed by their deeds that they were not nearly as concerned with China-flu, masking, etc. as they wanted us to be. The same goes for various government leaders and others of the “rich and famous,” the so-called “influencers.” Actions still speak louder than words.

    People are not dying “of Covid.” They are dying “with Covid.” Big difference.

    The last few days the airwaves and social media platforms have been full of reports of “vaccinated,” boosted, and double boosted senators, pro athletes, influencers, and regular folk being hit with Omicron. One can read of a “vaccinated” NFL player going to the ER with Omicron even as he listens to President Biden cough and hack his way through a speech in which he is telling his fellow Americans that if they get the shot they will be protected, they won’t be hospitalized, or die! We are living in a comedy, brother. Truth is indeed stranger than fiction.

    I’m sorry if you don’t see it, but many of us are way past looking at charts, graphs, data, etc. We are not armed with “double-blind studies,” “peer reviewed” this and “settled science” that, but we know what we are observing and living through. This is what we observe: The “vaccine” (and Andrew is correct that it is not a vaccine and the definition of “vaccine” has been changed to accommodate this mess) has obviously not lived up to the promises of our political and science leaders, natural immunity has not disappeared, masking is a joke, social distancing is nothing but theatre, and this entire “pandemic” has been used to encroach on liberties around the world. Oh, and everyone I know who has had the China-flu and has taken Ivermectin experienced relief almost immediately and recovery very quickly. And there are reports of that being the case all over the world. Of course, the “experts” all tell me that is “horse paste,” etc. So, there we go again.

    I wish I was not at this place of skepticism with so many of our “medical experts.” But, I also will not ignore what I’m seeing going on right in front of me.

    I agree that we need to be on guard against foolish notions of “conspiracy theories” that are rooted in foolishness and lies. I disagree with the idea that we need to trust the current mainstream of “health experts” when it comes to the China-flu. They have lost credibility concerning this virus. It is a shame, but they did it to themselves.

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14. Dear Bro Mitchell,

    I believe that the reasons to believe that vaccinated people are much less likely to get serious cases of COVID and also substantially less likely to get COVID are significantly stronger than the arguments on the other side. I also wonder if we can over-generalize, considering that we are not speaking about a nebulous group of undefined “experts” but, say, the head of the research department at Cornell, or the Medical College at Yale, or the college of medicine at many other schools, etc., and I cannot say that I have enough evidence that these specific people, some of whom are pro-sodomy, some of whom are against sodomy, some of whom are pro-abortion, some of whom are pro-life, etc. are forging their studies, and that, say, companies that make other vaccines who want to drive their competitors out of business and so for whom the love of money makes them want to expose any funny business in their competition, and many, many other moving parts who would need to keep a cover up going are able to do it.

    But if you believe that, following the Scriptural principles in this series of studies, you have sufficient evidence to the contrary, I’m not going to make a big deal out of it.

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15. Dear Bro Mitchell,

    If you are able, please feel free to share what the strongest arguments you have read both for and against Ivermectin and why you believe the scientific case for it is superior to the best arguments against it.

    Also, if you look at PubMed, they are doing ongoing clinical trials of Ivermectin at places like Duke University. Could you explain who you are referring to by “all” the experts saying it is about as worth investigating as “horse paste”? I believe the majority view among US researchers is that it is possible that it may have some benefit, but not yet proven, and self-medication can be risky.

    I would also be interested in the quotes from experts in virology stating that the vaccine would be 100% effective against all strains of COVID for life, which they now need to backtrack on, or whatever you believe has been very misleading. Of course, politicians, radio personalities, and other people like that make extreme statements all the time, and those are not what we are looking for here.

    Thanks again.

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16. One more thing, Bro Mitchell; I am not trying to put words into your mouth, so if you are not saying that there is a conspiracy somewhere, I don’t want to say that you are; that’s not my goal.

    Also, I suspect you would know without my saying it that I don’t believe governments should use COVID as an excuse to destroy liberty. Government abuse, however, doesn’t mean that whatever the government is promoting is a bad idea. I think that New York was silly when it tried to punish people for drinking too much soda with a soda tax, but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t a good idea to drink less soda and drink more water or other lower calorie drinks. Governments punishing unvaccinated people is wrong, but that doesn’t automatically mean that the vaccines themselves are wrong (as I’m sure you would agree).

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17. I’ve talked to people serious about the government sending nano-technology into the air we breathe for mind control. I’ve talked to other men, who worked for the government for decades, who say the government is so incompetent, it would difficult for them to succeed at a conspiracy. Are all conspiracy theories allowed? They are rampant in churches. I know that. I get regular videos from a church member on JFK Jr. being alive.

    My take on Brother Ross and this series is that he saw Covid spread through a church, making a majority of the members terribly ill, shutting down their own gatherings, and killing some of the members. He’s seen multiple people die of cancer based on the same thinking. People can be manipulated by the fear of Covid and the fear of conspiracies both.

    Right now, I live in a state, which the majority of its people believe that a fourteen year old boy got a vision from a physical God the Father and a physical Jesus, who both told him that all religions were wrong, that the true gospel had been lost and was in need of restoration. A short time later he received from an “angel” golden tablets written in reformed Egyptian with a story completely lost to the entire world. That lost message was eternal progression, where men could and should strive to become gods like Jesus became one. Amen line coming. The biggest conspiracy is Satan and his system fooling essentially the entire world of a false narrative of the past, present, and future through a similar means as the people of this state. He’s succeeding wildly and even professing Christians are doing at the most a rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

    Neal Postman wrote the book, Amusing Ourselves to Death, and part of his proposition was that no one needed to be controlled by a government or a government conspiracy. They did far more to fool themselves by their own amusement. Even the fight against the conspiracy itself becomes a dog chasing its own tail.

    Both Donald Trump and Ben Shapiro are both pro Covid vaccine. I don’t think they’re wearing tin foil hats. Then again, Trump wonders about the birth certificate. So did I. It never looked real to me.

    Reply

18. Thanks for the comment, Bro Brandenburg.

    I want Christians to employ Biblical principles in their thinking. By all means apply these same principles to this series on Biblical thinking, and if a portion of my series fails the test, then reject it and follow Scripture.

    Reply

19. Not sure why that came through without proper spaces. Let’s try it again.

    Hi Thomas,

    First of all, most of the arguments you make on pro-medicine are rhetorical and some are logical fallacies. You seem to have a non-discerning approach to the truck loads and mountains of lies that are being pushed by MSM&M (that’s media and medicine).

    Practically everything that is being reported concerning covid and “vaccine” statistics are blatant lies, except where there is input from those not being bought out or coerced into manipulating data, ones we would call whistleblowers.

    Secondly, the covid vaccine is not a “vaccine.” I call it the death shot or clot shot because that is what is does best. The following criteria must be met for something to be called a vaccine. (1) The injection must provide the recipient antibody immunity to a pathogen (virus or bacterium). The death shot does not confer antibody immunity to the Chinese-manufactured virus. It promotes antibodies to the “synthetic spike protein” that your cells have built. That spike protein is not specific to the Chinese virus. (2) The antibodies produced post-injection must be shown to confer protection from that pathogen, whether virus or bacterium. The death shot has not been shown in any study to do this. The death shot developers have even stated openly that they do not know if the injection will give protection. And by now we, like they, know that it doesn’t. Israel is a fantastic case study. (3) The injection must demonstrate it reduces hospitalizations or deaths from the pathogen. The death shot has not been studied to show that it reduces hospitalizations or deaths; the studies conducted did not assess this. (4) The injection must demonstrate that it reduces severe symptoms of the pathogen. The death shot was never studied to show that it reduces severe symptoms. (5) The injection must demonstrate it stops the recipient from carrying the pathogen. The death shot was not studied to show that it stops recipients from carrying the pathogen. Time has shown us that not only does it not stop the carrying of the pathogen, majority of people contracting covid are the “vaccinated.” Iceland, Israel shows that vaccine passports are worthless https://odysee.com/@Politico:2/iceland-shows-that-vaccine-passports-are-worthless:1. Another one: https://vaccineimpact.com/2021/study-by-harvard-researcher-finds-countries-with-lowest-covid-19-vaccination-rates-have-fewer-cases-of-covid-than-fully-vaccinated-countries/ Very very many studies show this already. (6) The injection must show it stops transmission of the pathogen from the injection recipient to others. The death shot was not studied to show that it stops transmission from one person to others. Time again has revealed that majority of cases are being transmitted by the “vaccinated.”

    Thirdly, these so-called “vaccines” do much more harm than good. The antigen that these vaccines are based on, SARS-CoV- 2 Spike, is a toxic protein. SARS-CoV-2 may have ADE, or antibody-dependent enhancement; current antibodies may not neutralize future strains, but instead help them infect immune cells. And it does contain aborted fetus cells. https://biblescienceforum.com/2021/10/25/new-evidence-for-infanticide-in-the-creation-of-the-fetal-cell-line-used-for-covid-vaccine-testing/

    Fourthly, if you want real science, people that aren’t deceitful but actually truthful, individuals that are non-biased with actual truth-compelled expertise, people that haven’t been bought out by the system, versus the ever destructive MSMM, here are a few among many: Dr Robert Malone (inventor of the mRNA technology and a consultant to key US regulators over last 3 decades on vaccine development); Dr Peter McCullough (internist, cardiologist, epidemiologist, and Professor of Medicine, is one of the most published physicians in the world); Dr Paul Alexander (Canadian Health Researcher, former COVID pandemic advisor to WHO-PAHO in Washington and a former senior advisor on COVID pandemic policy at HHS), Dr Michael Yeadon (MD, Phd, former Pfizer Vice President); Dr Luc Montagnier (maybe the most famous virologist in the world, Nobel Prize winner AIDS pioneer), Dr Richard Fleming (PhD, MD, JD, Nuclear Cardiologist); Dr Geert Vanden Bossche, Dr. Roger Hodkinson, Dr. Charles Hoffe, Dr Vernon Coleman, Dr. Wesley Granger, Dr Gary Davidson, Dr. Robert Brenna, etc, etc. Yes these individuals have published tons of data and even some clinical studies that reflect what’s really occurring with the vaccines and expose of the massive corruption, lies and manipulation on the so-called covid plandemic statistics.

    Some informative sites:
    -https://vaccinechoicecanada.com
    -https://swprs.org
    -https://www.drpaulalexander.com
    https://www.americaoutloud.com/the-mccullough-report/
    -https://vernoncoleman.org/articles/how-many-people-are-vaccines-killing
    -https://biblescienceforum.com/2021/04/18/former-pfizer-vp-dr-michael-yeadon-covid-vaccines-are-going-to-kill-you/ (its not conspiracy!)
    -https://biblescienceforum.com
    -https://www.primarydoctor.org/covidvaccine
    -https://www.ukmedfreedom.org
    -https://defendingtherepublic.org/covid/

    Fifthly, to the chagrin of the powers that be, drug adverse reaction databases exist in the western world and praise the Lord for that! But they only reflect a very small percentage of what is actually occurring.
    -America: https://openvaers.com/index.php (gives a clear summary from the VAERS database)
    -Europe: https://healthimpactnews.com/2021/31014-deaths-2890600-injuries-following-covid-shots-in-european-database-of-adverse-reactions-as-young-previously-healthy-people-continue-to-die/
    -UK: https://yellowcard.ukcolumn.org/yellow-card-reports

    Bear in mind, all these databases (and there are more, like Australia, Brazil, etc) on vaccine injuries are individual, not combined numbers from other countries, and do not actually represent the true numbers. A government study estimated that VAERS undercounts actual vaccine injuries by a factor of 100 (https://digital.ahrq.gov/sites/default/files/docs/publication/r18hs017045-lazarus-final-report-2011.pdf?utm_source=newsletter_36&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=the-openvaers-red-box-report); more recent estimates calculate that vaccine injuries are underreported to VAERS by a factor of 31 (https://6176528bdf10180007bae955–i-do-not-consent.netlify.app/media/Pharmacovigilance%20VAERS%20paper%20FINAL_OCT_1_2021.pdf?utm_source=newsletter_36&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=the-openvaers-red-box-report)

    Overall the deaths combined (in only the countries keeping databases), the true numbers are millions dead and tens of millions dying. Have you read of the hundreds of athlete’s dropping dead from heart attacks the world over?

    By the way, 78% of people dying from delta variant are fully vaccinated: https://youtu.be/lepqvdXoA2E If this video doesn’t work, its because big tech is in bed with the evil MSM to hide and censor the truth. That alone tells us what is actually occurring and how deceptive anything MSM&M says really is.

    Six, here is good info on Ivermectin:
    -https://ivmmeta.com
    -https://covid19criticalcare.com
    -https://swprs.org/on-the-treatment-of-covid-19/
    -https://c19ivermectin.com

    Seven, there is tons of proof that the whole thing is a sandal and part of the NWO being established. There is a vast and appalling criminal conspiracy that directly links both Anthony Fauci and Moderna to the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Moderna is also owned in part by the US government. The Chinese manufactured virus was essentially the means to get to the end: the “vaccine.” It was always about the “vaccine.” It’s a precursor or dry run for the mark of the beast, and its toxic formula to steal, kill and destroy. To depopulate the world. Both are working as intended. I hate to break it to you; you have been duped. You have believed a lie.

    You can read more here Thomas and tons of more where this came from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/356471022_COVID-19-The-Spartacus-Letter-V2-2021-09-28

    Lastly, I personally have worked emergency medicine for 20+ years and have a degree in health science that majored in clinical research and evidence based medicine. I also have experience in managing a covid clinic for nearly a year, so I have some sort of footing. I have personally witnessed way to many adverse reactions and deaths from this death shot to sit idly by and watch you push the evil lies of MSM&M and the medical genocide that is occurring across the world, never mind all the other evil associated with all this. You really need to stop doing that. You could very well have the blood of people on your hands by promoting this evil clot shot that hasn’t stopped anything, but rather has put millions of people into their grave prematurely, with many more heading there. Very many of those surviving have completely destroyed their lives, unable to work, unable to feed their families and destroyed health. The “15 days to flatten the curve” has led to the worst genocidal mass murder in the history of the world. And it continues as we commune. You should spend some hours reading here to get bit of a glimpse of the actual truth being censored by the media and some medicine establishments: https://www.facebook.com/100072818574464/posts/119987093771909/?d=n

    Another thing, I believe taking the death shot is tempting the Lord, taking an injection for something you don’t have and a shot that could very well harm you. “It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.” (Lk 4:12).

    I believe also its only by the grace of God that you survived the death shot, but I would be afraid to look at a CT image or PET of your body, knowing all to well the massive amounts of clots that are forming in the “vaccinated” (e.g., BC doc says he’s found blood clots in 62% of post-jab patients: https://westernstandardonline.com/2021/07/bc-doc-says-hes-found-blood-clots-in-62-of-post-jab-patients/ and https://rumble.com/vr13t3-must-see-doctors-blow-the-whistle-on-vaccine-injuries.html?mref=6zof&mc=dgip3&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=PressForTruth&ep=2) A colleague that was just stripped of his ability to practice medicine in Alberta, said he has seen CT after CT that reveal bodies riddled with clots. But all of its being hidden from the public.

    I could write much much more, but will leave it at that for now.

    Reuben

    Reply

    • Lancet science paper DESTROYS false narrative of covid vaccines, reveals vaccinated are PERPETUATING the pandemic

      ‘Since the beginning of the plandemic, the world was told that getting “vaccinated” with an Operation Warp Speed injection would “cure” the Wuhan coronavirus (Covid-19). Nearly two years have passed, however, and the exact opposite is proving to be true.

      A new letter from researcher Günter Kampf that was published in The Lancet blows some major holes in the mainstream injection narrative, one of the biggest being that Fauci Flu shots are not stopping the spread as claimed.

      In fact, there appears to be greater spread of illness and death among those who took the shots in obedience to government guidelines compared to those who left their immune systems alone to fight disease naturally.

      According to Kampf, the epidemiological relevance of the fully vaccinated “is increasing,” based on the latest data. At best, the jabs are providing no protection whatsoever. At worst, they are making the people who take them more prone to a negative health outcome.

      “In the UK, it was described that secondary attack rates among household contacts exposed to fully vaccinated index cases was similar to household contacts exposed to unvaccinated index cases (25% for vaccinated vs 23% for unvaccinated),” Kampf writes.

      “[Twelve] of 31 infections in fully vaccinated household contacts (39%) arose from fully vaccinated epidemiologically linked index cases. Peak viral load did not differ by vaccination status or variant type.”

      In Germany, he adds, the rate of symptomatic covid among the vaccinated is increasing. Back in July, it was around 16.9 percent among patients 60 years of age and older. As of October 27, that figure skyrocketed to 58.9 percent, “providing clear evidence of the increasing relevance of the fully vaccinated as a possible source of transmission.”’

      The article continues here: https://pandemic.news/2021-12-21-lancet-paper-destroys-false-narrative-covid-vaccines.html

      Innumerable reports reveal it’s the vaccinated who are spreading the virus. In the community I’m in, this has been true as well. Some of the links provided in the previous post, reveal this. Here is an example of one case: https://rumble.com/vooisa-saving-lives-real-stories-of-frontline-interventions-featuring-chris-burgar.html

      Reuben

      Reply

20. Brother Ross,

    Thanks for the responses. I know we are all busy men with many responsibilities. I believe we do need to think Biblically and always apply Biblical principles to everything in life. I appreciate your efforts to continually do just that.

    I am convinced that the Wuhan-flu is a very real virus. I know that for some people it can take their life and I have friends and acquaintances who have died with it. I grieve with all who have lost loved ones due to any virus, accident, etc. The Lord’s church here had it tear through us, and thankfully, no one died, though some were seriously ill.

    I am also convinced that much of the response to the virus has been nothing short of evil. Conspiracy? I don’t know. I do know “the world lieth in wickedness.” The “rulers of the darkness of this world” and those in “high places” are using this virus to push evil agendas on humanity. They are not hiding this. They are very open. There’s no mystical secret codes or something. It is right in our faces.

    I wish the shot was a real vaccine that really kept people safe from the virus. I’ve gotten a bunch of vaccines, having grown up in the USA and then more because of travelling to preach in India and China. Whatever these shots are that are called Covid-vaccines, they are not like the ones I’ve received. The product, the promises, the plan, the promotion, the pressures…

    All of it is unlike any other vaccine or any medical help I’ve ever been offered. I am convinced that every believer, indeed every American, has reason to be concerned about this matter. If some are not concerned and are rather convinced the shot is good for them, then they are free under God to use the shot and they will give account to Him just as I will give account for being concerned and refusing it.

    We live in a time of debauchery, deception, darkness, and devilishness. May God give us all true Biblical, Holy Ghost discernment to “walk as children of light.”

    Reply

21. Dear Bro Mitchell,

    I agree 100% with:

    We live in a time of debauchery, deception, darkness, and devilishness. May God give us all true Biblical, Holy Ghost discernment to “walk as children of light.”

    Thanks.

    Reply

22. Hello Reuben! Do you agree that these questions are good and necessary consequences of Scripture? Perhaps you have not had a chance to read the first parts of this series. The whole thing is here:

    https://faithsaves.net/conspiracy/

    Here are the questions to consider:

    Have I followed Biblical principles for evaluating data?

    These principles include:

    Have the best arguments both for and against the conspiracy been carefully examined?

    Is the conspiracy logical?

    Are there conflicts of interest in those promoting the conspiracy?

    Does the conspiracy theory produce extraordinary evidence for its extraordinary claims?

    Does the conspiracy require me to think more highly of myself than I ought to think?

    Is looking into the conspiracy redeeming the time?

    Are Biblical patterns of authority followed by those spreading the conspiracy?

    I ask because your comments don’t seem to indicate that you think these principles are Scriptural. For example, consider this:

    “What are the best arguments you have read both for and against your conspiracy, and what logical, rational, evidence-based arguments convince you that the arguments for the conspiracy are stronger than the ones against it?”

    The command to “reason” in Isaiah 1:18 has the idea of the type of reasoning that proves a point in a law court (Niphal of yakach, cf. Job 23:7, HALOT, BDB). The way that something is proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a law-court is the way we need to evaluate evidence for or against the conspiracy theory. If we fail to receive as true a just defense (Acts 7:56-57; Job 31:13-14), including a just defense against a conspiratorial accusation, we commit sin, and we cannot accurately evaluate whether a just defense against a conspiratorial claim exists unless we have carefully examined both sides of the claims we are spreading.

    Could you explain what the strongest arguments you have read against the many, many extraordinary claims you make in your comments are, and why, specifically, you believe the arguments against them fail in each specific case?

    There’s a lot more to ask than just that, but maybe let’s start there.

    Thanks.

    Reply

23. Hi Thomas,

    If you claim to follow Biblical principles in evaluating data and end up at the MSM&M side concerning the covid “vaccines”, then you haven’t used Biblical principles. In fact, ending up on the MSM at anytime requires a certain amount of Biblical denial. Nor have you used discernment. I won’t go through every step of the way as to why MSM&M are almost blanketed liars and deceivers and bearers of false witness, though I did some of that already, even simply concerning the fact that its not a “vaccine” and its never been proven (YOU are the experiment), but thankfully men have already done that. I gave you a list of them. There is way more, but that list is astounding in itself. I also gave you many websites (and could provide more) of massive amounts of information that is true, proven over and over, and it’s all out there, IF you are actually interested in the truth.

    The “conflicts of interest” rarely exists “in those promoting the conspiracy” but are thoroughly present in every argument for the “vaccines.” I have shown some of that already, concerning Moderna and Fauci, but they exist every step of the way for the death shot way. Right from what constitutes a vaccine, to the massive amounts of conflict of interest between big Pharma and hospitals and governments, etc.

    You should stop calling the truth “conspiracy” as if that is novel, while the vaccines are killing people in the millions (including pre-born babies) and injuring in the tens of millions, while simultaneously helping no one but spreading viruses and who knows what else, through shedding. The hospitals are loaded with vaccinated people, its a battle ground out there, hospitals full of people having heart problems, strokes, and many other things. But that is “conspiracy”? Don’t call good evil and evil good. Have you looked here Thomas: https://vernoncoleman.org/articles/how-many-people-are-vaccines-killing Spike proteins are very bad. They do very bad things to people. Did you read through this: https://www.facebook.com/wxyzdetroit/posts/10158207967261135

    Redeeming the time is also more than writing against “conspiracy theories” and its more than tempting the Lord by taking an experimental toxin that has never been studied, proven, tested, like all other drugs are required by the FDA, a jab which could in high probability cut down your time prematurely on earth so you can redeem the time no more.

    I am a proponent of evidence-based medicine. Nothing regarding the covid vaccines is evidence based. It was never tested, never studied. The masses became the study, and in spite of millions dying and getting injured, it still hasn’t even pulled. Thomas, why are you so opposed to evidence-based medicine and facts? Or the truth for that matter? This isn’t something that is a “maybe,” or a grey area. This is everywhere around us with massive mountains of reliable and accurate facts and information.

    I cannot help you Thomas if you choose to close your ears and shut your eyes to the truth of what is happening. You seem to call anything a conspiracy that doesn’t agree with you or with mainstream. That is simple-minded. Everything I have written is all out there and its all very factual. It’s easily findable, that is if you are willing, even though big tech and the swamp and the fake and evil MSM make every attempt to hide and censor it.

    I think the biggest issue that is noted today is with people rejecting the truth because they bought the lie. I have personally seen this many many times already. A stubborn refusal to acknowledge what is so evident. You have taken the death shot and now need to continue to verify that what you did was right, even though people everywhere around you are dropping like flies. So you will agree with MSM&M to appease the anxiety and prove to others that what you did was the correct thing to do, even though your conscience is a branding iron.

    You need to look through all the web addresses I gave you. Read through what the doctors for truth have published and written, the list I gave you and I can provide many more if you need. Look at the truth. Open your eyes and ears. Its all there. Its “easy-findism.”

    Love “rejoiceth in the truth” (1 Cor 13:6).

    Reuben

    Reply

    • Reuben,

      I took the “death shot.” My 82 year old father and 81 year old mother did too. None of us have gotten sick with Covid. That’s anecdotal, but this issue should not split a church. It is at the most a liberty issue. I recognize Thomas started it, but personally if a church wants to wear masks, space out their chairs, and most people get the shot, that’s fine. On the other hand, if someone doesn’t want to wear the mask, not get the shot, be my guest. I don’t want anyone arguing about it in the church. When someone gets in someone’s face for not doing something or doing something in the church, I see that a bigger problem for this.

      Reply

      • Kent,

        I know people too that took the death shot that have survived—so far—but that is not the argument. The issue is the high probability of dying or being injured. The percentage is huge. Its literally everywhere. The hospitals are loaded with people suffering the consequences of taking the death shot. Love speaks the truth. In our community roughly 75% of people getting the shot (which is about 10% of the populace) have serious adverse reactions or dying suddenly. Most of them also got covid after. As harsh as it might sound, the experimental injection is a form of playing Russian roulette. When I look at the massive amounts of adverse reports in the databases, and the amount of info I am exposed to, I have no choice but to call it what it is. And I’m only one among many. Many are calling it out. Truth is non-discriminatory. Love is sacrificial so it speaks the truth. I am speaking the truth, because I care. Speaking truth is caring. I am thankful for everyone that survives the dangerous game, I praise the Lord for it, but I think it’s wiser not to play the game, especially in light of the crystal clear fact that it’s actually not helpful for the variants but detrimental. So it’s important to inform people since much of this critical info is being hidden and censored. Even the fact it’s not actually a “vaccine” but an experimental medication. At the end of the day, it’s all about coercion and control, that’s the purpose for it. We need to be prepared. That’s certainly no conspiracy. People need to know the truth.

        Reuben

        Reply

24. Dear Bro Brandenburg,

    I agree.

    Dear Reuben,

    You called me a lot of things again, but you didn’t answer my questions. It would convince more people that I am guilty of “medical genocide,” that I have “the blood of people on your hands by promoting this evil clot shot that hasn’t stopped anything, but rather has put millions of people into their grave prematurely,” and that because I “have taken the death shot and now need to continue to verify that what [I] did was right, even though people everywhere around [me] are dropping like flies,” and I am doing this because I need to “appease the anxiety and prove to others that what [I] did was the correct thing to do, even though [my] conscience is a branding iron” if you actually answer these questions. These are big claims–ones that should get you put under church discipline for slander and evil speaking in a church if you can’t prove them. I hope you don’t treat people in your church this way. So please answer the questions. If you feel that you need to throw in some more insults, go ahead if it makes you feel better. Maybe it will help you convince people who don’t recognize the abusive ad hominem fallacy.

    Here is one again:

    Could you explain what the strongest arguments you have read against the many, many extraordinary claims you make in your comments are, and why, specifically, you believe the arguments against them fail in each specific case?

    Proverbs 18:17: He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.

    You never cited even one source critical of what you are saying, nor provided the slightest explanation for why the very extreme claims you are making have better evidence for them than the mainstream scientific arguments against what you said. That needs to be done before you say that getting vaccinated for COVID is worse than the genocides committed by Hitler, Stalin, etc. I want to see at least as many critical sources refuting your arguments cited and careful, detailed, evidence-based explanations for why the extreme claims you are making have better evidence for them than the refutations. I want the best case against your position refuted in a careful, logical way. Why do the refutations fail?

    Thanks.

    Reply

    • Dear Thomas,

      “Abusive ad hominem”? Wow, is that the best you can do Thomas, when confronted with the great danger of promoting evil while calling the truth “conspiracy”? Yes that is precisely what you are doing and the only “abusive ad hominem fallacy” that is occurring is you encouraging me to be “put under church discipline for slander and evil speaking in a church” for speaking the truth. Wait a minute, I think I have read that in Scripture. Doesn’t that parallel what occurred to the apostles and the Lord?

      When you recommend people to play a deadly game of Russian roulette in taking a deadly injection that has never been proven or tested or studied but has a high probability of either injuring or killing you — this is indeed having “the blood of people on your hands.” It is very evil and needs to be sharply reproved, while kisses in the face of evil would only be deceitful (Pr 27:6b).

      “Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!” (Is 5:20).

      You might call the truth “slander and evil speaking” but God thankfully sees it in a whole different light. “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.” (Jn 15:12). Or Pr 27:6, “Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.” (Pr 27:6).

      Speaking the truth is compelled by Scripture (Lev 5:1). “These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates:” (Ze 8:16). I think the following should be familiar to you. The duties contained in the ninth commandment (thou shalt not bear false witness) requires me to preserve and promote the truth between men (Ze. 8:16), and to appear and stand for the truth (Pr. 31:8-9; Ju. 1:3; I Cor. 16:13; Ezk. 3:17). Though this is not a spiritual issue, it is a life issue and that also requires defending. I would be guilty of transgressing this commandment if I concealed the truth or held undue silence in this just cause (Lev 5:1) and held my peace when iniquity and error calleth for a reproof from myself (Pr. 24:25; 28:23; Ti. 2:15; Lev. 19:17) and complaint to others (Is. 59:4a; Rom. 16:17; I Cor. 1:11).

      I continue to believe the biggest issue we are dealing with here—something that seems to be quote common among those who have taken the death shot and henceforth refuse to reason with facts and truth—is that you have taken the death shot and thus need to follow Big Pharma and MSM in practically whatsoever they say to approve the behaviour. I’ll call that out again as being simple-minded. It’s also very undiscerning. I encounter this from time to time in medicine with people arguing the same weak MSM-based arguments while are really biased corrupted fables, while blatantly refusing to actually look at the real facts of what is occurring before their very eyes. They have buried their heads in the sand, and MSM&M is their conscience appeaser. Discernment is cast out the window for a biased position based on personal experience and dishonest media. The “experts” are trusted, but not the experts who are speaking the truth by whistleblowing and exposing the evil, corruption, lies, lies and more lies. It behooves me that I am actually having this conversation with someone I suspected to have more discernment than this.

      I don’t need to cite sources critical of what I am saying because what I am saying is not untrue. I have been on your side of the fence and its one based upon lies. Blatant lies and massive false witness and censorship. I work in medicine and I know this very well, as do all my colleagues. I know it’s true and so do majority of medical providers across the country and vast majority of people are waking up to it everywhere around the world, including some of the best experts in this field. What field of medicine do you work in Thomas? A Phd is not an MD. You should look at everything I sent you and learn the real facts and truth of what is occurring rather than what the liars are feeding you. Go through links I posted. Read through them, and study them, unless you are afraid of the truth.

      On the other hand, you are free to keep your eyes and ears closed and believe the extreme lies of MSM or “mainstream scientific arguments,” or whatever it is that you want to believe, but you are not free to propagate this without any opposition or without sharp reproof. Lives, real actual lives, rely on knowing the facts and truth but I won’t be cowered into silence by your rejection of it and promotion of the evil and ridicule of truth.

      I will pray that the Lord Jesus open thine eyes and ears.

      Reuben

      Reply

    • On one other note Thomas, would you encourage the same Merry Christmas wish as the illegitimate demoncratic president and commander in chief of the lies and medical genocide? Or what about the lies about the “unvaccinated” being at greatest risk? https://rumble.com/vr7otc-christmas-message-from-the-bidens.html?mref=6zof&mc=dgip3&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=tonyheller&ep=2

      Reply

25. Hi Reuben. Could you please comment on how the verses in part 1 of this study relate to how we evaluate information? Why isn’t your refusal to look at the best case both for and against what you are saying, and a refusal to show why the best arguments against your position are fail, shame and folly? What do the verses cited in part 1 of this study mean, and how do they show it is OK to ignore the case against your position and only insult people instead of refuting the arguments against it?

    Thanks.

    Reply

26. Also, Reuben, the question is not whether we should speak the truth. Of course we should speak the truth. The question is whether we should carefully look at the evidence for both sides of a position and refrain from insulting and slandering people unless we have evidence that would stand up in a court of law—my position, based on exegesis of Scripture—or whether we should only read what we are already predisposed to believe, or not even read but just watch videos on social media, refuse to read and refuse to refute the best arguments against our position, and then say that those who disagree are doing so because their consciences are seared with hot irons, they are afraid, they support genocide, and all kinds of other unprovable and ridiculous things we can’t know about their motives. If I didn’t take Scripture out of context in this study, then this second option is shame and folly.

    Thanks.

    Reply

27. Thomas,

    The Bible’s “love chapter” indicates that “charity vaunteth not itself” and “is not puffed up,” and “Charity …rejoiceth in the truth.”

    If you saw someone about to drive into a horrible head on collision, would you just sit there and do nothing because “mainstream scientific arguments” say that the car is so designed for its inhabitants to survive a crash? Or would you holler “conspiracy theorists” to those who attempt to warn of the danger? The idea is, danger requires an alarm. It requires action. The truth is, this death shot doesn’t just effect two cars of people or one person, like you for example, but many people, very many people, even innocent ones through shedding, and by propagating the false narrative of the so-called “vaccine,” you are putting people in great danger! And that needs to be exposed from the roof tops.

    Have you considered the science behind what a vaccine is supposed to be versus what the covid injection actually is? Or do you just ignore that?

    Have you considered the fact that this so called “vaccine” has never been studied or tested as is required by law, a process that normally takes anywhere between 10-15 years, but the people, mostly by coercion, have become the guinea pigs? Isn’t that enough of a red flag for you, to flee from the damage to come?

    Did you read through this Thomas? https://www.facebook.com/wxyzdetroit/posts/10158207967261135 Are those all just “conspiracy theorists”?

    Have you looked here Thomas? https://vernoncoleman.org/articles/how-many-people-are-vaccines-killing Are those millions of people and the massive amounts of data just “conspiracy theory”?

    Did you examine the VAERS, European, and UK databases, and others like it, and note the millions of very serious adverse reactions and massive amounts of deaths, essentially in the millions due to huge underreporting? Or is that just a “conspiracy”?

    Why is MSM&M so active in hiding the truth and forcing false narratives and critical information?

    Have you looked at the Spartacus Report? (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/356471022_COVID-19-The-Spartacus-Letter-V2-2021-09-28) Or is that form of evidence all just “conspiracy” because it doesn’t fit your criteria, or maybe more accurately, MSM&M?

    Have you considered what the very doctor who invented the mRNA technology, Dr Robert Malone, also a vaccine expert, has to say about the death shot?

    As of June, CDC whistle-blowers were stating that over 50,000 people in the US had died already, exposed here by Dr Peter McCullough https://www.algora.com/Algora_blog/2021/06/27/dr-peter-mccullough-whistleblowers-inside-cdc-claim-injections-have-already-killed-50000-americans — or is that just a conspiracy?

    In the case of Moderna, the U.S. government is co-patent holder through the NIG, a clear conflict of interest, but is that just a “conspiracy”?

    Have you looked at the massive amount of info, studied and reports on https://vaccinechoicecanada.com or https://swprs.org or https://biblescienceforum.com or https://www.primarydoctor.org/covidvaccine or https://www.ukmedfreedom.org or https://defendingtherepublic.org/covid/ ?

    Have you considered that the former pfizer VP Dr Michael Yeadon said about “vaccines”? https://biblescienceforum.com/2021/04/18/former-pfizer-vp-dr-michael-yeadon-covid-vaccines-are-going-to-kill-you/ Or is he just deceived about this “conspiracy”?

    You really need to stop pushing the evil lies and propaganda of MSM&M, which is not only destroying lives and killing people, but also destroying our precious liberty, Nazi style. In fact, it’s all right out of the Marxist/Communist playbook and the last thing any Bible believing Christian should be doing is promoting this great evil! People like Fauci and the NIH are the enemy of the people. They are CORRUPT TO THE CORE! Tedros, corrupt evil leader of WHO, just recently said the countries are giving boosters to actually kill children (https://brandnewtube.com/watch/who-director-some-countries-are-giving-boosters-to-kill-children-instead-of-the-elderly_JWwMvQufuF4CorH.html). At least he is being honest for once.

    I work emergency medicine. I save lives, not destroy them. So when I see a toxic medication (it’s not a “vaccine”) that destroys people at alarming rates, kinda like the polio vaccine did, I open my mouth and speak the truth. “If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain; If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?” (Pr 24:11-12).

    Have you ever considered Pr 17:4? It says, “A wicked doer giveth heed to false lips; and a liar giveth ear to a naughty tongue.” Isn’t that the case when someone listens to the “false lips” and “naughty tongue” of MSM&M and then propagates them? Not sure what else it would be. But if you want to be ignorant, then be ignorant. But you don’t have the right to be propagating this evil to others.

    “God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.” (Jam 4:6).

    Reuben

    Reply

28. Hi Reuben,

    The Bible teaches that it is shame and folly to draw conclusions from only reading one side of things. I asked you to provide the strongest arguments against what you wrote and why the strongest arguments against it are wrong, or show why the passages I pointed out to teach the necessity of looking at both sides of an issue don’t really mean what they look like they say. In response, you did not supply even one critical source, but made more extreme claims. Please do what I ask. If you don’t, I am not responding any more. Thanks.

    Reply

29. Thomas,

    It’s always “a personal attack” to someone when they are told that they are wrong and simple minded for believing the blatantly crystal clear lies, and that they should urgently repent for essentially advocating for evil — advocating for something that can easily lead to death or at the very least, very destructive damage to their health and decrease the quality and longevity of their life. Is that very loving and fulfilling God’s royal law (Jam 2:8), Thomas? Standing for the truth and promoting life is about the most loving thing a person can do, but to you it becomes a “personal attack” which in it self is actually an ad hominem logical fallacy.

    Thomas, you would always find some needle in a hay stack to prove that someone not following the heaps of propaganda trash and non-stop lies from MSM&M (and their narrow-minded big Pharma track), must be advocating for “conspiracy theories.” The most ironic thing of all is your claim that I refuse “to look at the best arguments on both sides of an issue” while simultaneously rejecting the non-vaccine “side of [the] issue.” That is called hypocrisy. Are you afraid of the truth, since you’ve been injected with the toxic death shot already? If you opened your eyes even for a second to what is actually happening, that would probably be enough. But you have closed them and it seems you have no wish to open them.

    Who is the one actually holding to “conspiracy theories”? Could it be the one who loves to believe everything MSM&M throws his way, to somehow appear to the world as fitting in or academically acceptable or some other unBiblical reason, even though everything has been debunked over and over already? Mask have very limited value to prevent transmission of bugs but are toxic to ones health and can create massive respiratory problems after prolonged use, studies have always shown that, but your MSM&M buddies are still pushing this form of control and conspiracy and propangda. Even Dr Death (Fauci) authored a retrospective clinical study on masks during the Spanish flu, and concluded that they were the direct cause of most deaths. But nothing to see here. No “conspiracy” here. Lockdowns did nothing but give control to the demonic minions who pursue after it with all their reprobate might. That isn’t a conspiracy? The inventor of the PCR test said you can’t run it faster than 28 cycles or you get false positives; yet they run it 35 or greater, at which speeds any anything at all will cause it to produce a false positive reading, but that’s no “conspiracy” right? The “15 days to straighten the curve” is now at how many hundreds of days, but that isn’t a “conspiracy”? Ivermectin and HCQ and vitamins were allegedly a “conspiracy,” ivermectin was for horses, but tons of studies, prior and after, have shown that it’s extremely effective at preventing covid infection and reducing mortality, but no conspiracy there, right? Why not take these medications Thomas if you are worried about the people in your church? Its innumerable more times effective than any death shot could ever be! The vaccine companies are immune to the law and can kill people with zero repercussions, but that isn’t a conspiracy? The untested, uncertified, and unlawful covid “vaccines” were never studied or trialed, never went through all the FDA phases for approval, which takes anywhere between 10-15 years, but they are somehow not part of a “conspiracy theory”? Even though they are killing peoples in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, and injuring people in the tens of millions, that is just a “conspiracy theory”? Wow. Just. Wow. Even though the same evil people that push for depopulating the world are now for a “vaccine” that will allegedly increase the longevity and quality of “life,” — but that isn’t some sort of evil “conspiracy”? Are you kidding me. And I could keep going, there is much more.

    Please don’t tell me I am the one who advocates for “conspiracy theories.” You should go have a long hard look in the mirror. The true conspiracy here is practically everything covid and all the abominable lies that pour out of MSM&M propaganda, and all the horrible corruption, which also involves majority of governments, and what the actual real agenda is for all this. The writing is on the wall and even many lost people can see it. Verily. In spite of the evidence piling up higher than Mount Everest, it’s just a “conspiracy theory” Thomas? Your logical fallacy argument is simply ridiculous. Once a person has found the truth, he doesn’t need to continue looking or questioning to see if the truth is actually the truth indeed or it’s just a conspiracy. I know what the truth is. There are hundreds of millions more like me. They are not blind to the genocide going on. The evidence is absolutely overwhelming. You could also know what the truth is Thomas if you rejected the MSM&M golden calf lies. That’s the first step to healing and recovery, and then you shall know the truth and truth shall make you free.

    I have looked at both sides of the argument. I have stated previously, I work in emergency medicine and have managed a covid isolation clinic. I understand the issue as well as any. I am exposed to it non-stop. But many facts about the plandemic and the so-called “vaccines” are just facts. Plain and simple facts. And “vaccine” related injuries and deaths don’t lie. Facts and truth aren’t lies Thomas, versus what you perceive to be a “vaccine,” that is a lie. It’s about as far removed from a “vaccine,” as it could get, maybe being addressed right here by Dr. Death and his buddies of death, 2 months prior to the pandemic starting: https://mobile.twitter.com/World0bserver/status/1470752431025934341 Why would I continue to entertain a lie, a lie you have believed and continue to in spite of the overwhelming facts and evidence? That is ludicrous. True non-manipulated clinical studies are factual, while MSM (medicine) propaganda and lies are rejected. Not one study has ever been done on the “vaccines” and everything retrospective shows them to be plainly evil, killing people everywhere and destroying untold numbers, in the millions. Practically everything the vaccine companies are claiming are lies, which we know even outside of the many important whistleblowers. The conflict of interest and manipulation of people through monetary incentives is staggering.

    Thomas, the Bible says it is a shame and folly to listen to liars. MSM&M are liars, bad liars, habitual liars and evil abominable liars. In fact, they are every type of liar you can possibly imagine, yet you read them and believe them. And that is simply unbelievable. It is astounding in light of the incredible amounts of true evidence for what is actually occurring, in spite of their great attempts to hide and censor the truth and manipulate information. They like people like you. But you should put an axe through your television and then you’ll be able to start thinking straight. If you don’t have a television, put it through your computer. Most importantly, reject what MSM&M is saying. They are lying. Stop believing the lie. “A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself; but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Pr 27:12). In your exegesis of scripture to defend taking the death shot, did you consider that passage? Or 1 Jn 5:19, “the whole world lieth in wickedness.” Or Jer 17:5-6, since your arguments are based upon a God-less system of the Antichrist (he is “the god of this world”), trusting in a system that hates God and His people and His Word: “Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord. For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.”

    “To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the Lord than sacrifice.” (Pr 21:3).

    Reuben

    p.s. While writing, here is another scientist and expert in the field of Immunology, Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, that calls the death shot Russian Roulette with plenty of proof. Note also the “conspiracy” concerning her excellent study, which I posted previously, in being censored and removed from professional publications, even thought its an excellent clinic study done properly to a T. Of course it doesn’t first their evil narrative, so the truth must be rejected. https://www.rebelnews.com/dr_jessica_rose_vaers_myocarditis_to_womens_reproductive_health?utm_campaign=tu_rosevaers_12_15_21&utm_medium=email&utm_source=therebel

    Reply

    • Thomas can answer if he wants as a last word, but I’m ending comments on the vaccine, which was a series on being careful not to be deceived by conspiracy theories. Everyone can just go ahead an be influenced one way or another based on conspiracy theories. And they are. I see it all over the place. I understand. There is a conspiracy between Satan and the world system against God. I also know that people call it a conspiracy theory if they disagree with it. It’s a simple way to undo someone’s argument. Because there are conspiracy theories and then there are those who call something a conspiracy theory that isn’t one, we’ve got to be discerning and we need principles for working with these.

      I don’t agree with Reuben here. He sees that the Covid-19 vaccine is a conspiracy. I know a Christian virologist, asked him about the vaccines. He says they’re good. He’s part of the cabal. He’s a stable, clear thinking, godly man. He’s supporting Russian roulette. Reuben says so. Right now, I know, you can find an expert to support whatever side you take. And you can find them online. Probably the search function would be something like “Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine death” or “Moderna Covid-19 vaccine heart-attack.” I go to a doctor with my parents every time, which is on average about once a month. Their doctor, I asked about the vaccine. He works with people every day. He got the vaccine. He answered affirmative, yes, with enthusiasm. I asked him about side effects. He had the booster. He said he got side-effects. They’re not hiding the side effects. For some people it is myocarditis, which can kill you. I could say a lot more. On the subject of this vaccine, two sides are calling the other, death. Not getting the vaccine, death. Getting the vaccine, death. Those cannot both be right. When I read no vaccine, death, I do read articles that show 32 times more likely to die without vaccine than with it, stats in the UK. But if Reuben is right, those people giving the stats are perverting them out of a desire to kill people getting the vaccine. I got the vaccine, and knew it was a risk.

      Again, the biggest problem as I see it is the disunity in individual good churches over this issue. We had none in the new church we started. There was a little potential division at Bethel, but we treated like a Romans 14 liberty issue. I would wonder, is it not a liberty issue? Are all churches treating it as that? If that’s all you’re going to write about, I don’t mind keeping this thread open for that topic. However, all discussion on the vaccine, it’s over, except if Thomas wants to answer Reuben.

      Reply

30. It would probably behoove us to ask ourselves, all other issues aside, whether “official” sources who have a vested financial and ideological in a narrative will be very likely to publish, etc. things which would cause people to doubt that same narrative.

    Reply

31. Dear Tim,

    We should certainly consider the biases in all sources that we look at, official or not.

    Thanks.

    Dear Dr. Brandenburg,

    I think Reuben’s position would not allow vaccination to be a liberty issue. If he is consistent, anyone vaccinated who does not repent of that alleged sin would have to be placed under church discipline, and only churches who tow the conspiracy line could be fellowshipped with.

    Reply

32. Tim, I concur. I would say practically all of MSM&M has a financial and ideological vested interest in the narrative (I speak specifically of this issue concerning covid, but I also know personally of other vested narratives concerning other drugs). And not only that, opposing positions are simply unreported and unpublished. Definitely not by MSMedia and mostly not by MSMedicine. The staggering death and injury toll of the “vaccine” for example is completely left out of any media or medicine publication. The “vaccine” is zealously pushed while making little difference to acquiring the virus, while incredible life saving drugs like Ivermectin and HCQ are opposed, ridiculed and censored. And that in spite of massive amounts of clinical studies and data showing ivermectin and HCQ to be highly efficacious, ranging anywhere between 60-90% (depending on when they are started in the course of treatment), while simultaneously, zero clinical studies on the “vaccines,” and data showing them to be incredibly dangerous and risky. And why get “vaccinated” for a cold? That is essentially all it is — corona viruses are cold viruses. Some can lead to pneumonia and death, due to obesity or other unhealthy life choices, or co-morbidity, but it’s still caused by a cold virus. My family and I had it as well. Some countries are stripping physicians licenses or practicing permission for saving their patients lives through the non-vaccine means. In some places, they even get to go to jail.

    Thomas, have I ever stated what you wrote? You are constructing a straw man.

    I have always thought vaccination is a liberty issue, and never would I church discipline someone over an issue of liberty, but I do believe that threshold is crossed when someone is deliberately pushing vaccinations in a public arena in spite of knowing the dangers associated with it. Not ignorantly but wilfully. This is exceedingly dangerous for the many reasons I have stated prior and could provide a lot more info if you need in order for you to see that. Thomas, I believe you to be a pretty smart believer. I have read much of your stuff and have shared your website and articles with many people. Your doctorate thesis on Keswick theology stands alone. Even you’re Ross gambit is pretty good. My intention was never to question your intelligence, but you are wrong on this issue, very wrong, unarguably, and it was only ever my intent to correct the error with factual proof, which I believe to be extremely dangerous. Not spiritually dangerous (as of right now) but life-altering dangerous, with a full blown medical genocide going on around us, and an agenda on the horizon. My intentions here have been to help you and readers. When I see a danger that I perceive could cost life or serious injury, I get zealous for the truth. I am not against good and true, factual science, since my job after all is essentially based entirely around truly—proven science. Standing for the truth is critical and that is not just about spiritual matters, also other matters.

    You should watch this short video and consider whether there is no conspiracy behind what is occurring. The clip within the short commentary shows one of the UK’s PM Boris Johnson’s conservative party members, MP Jacob Rees-Mogg, partying it up Christmas 2020, almost a year after the plandemic started. The mockery that is occurring on that video, in the midst of forcing us non-important people locked down, masked up and separated from families and friends, is infuriating. But it fits perfectly, like hand in glove, with everything else tyrannical that is going on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOh20z5LQbQ

    How about this “conspiracy”? The IMF and the World Bank along with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation talking about a digital ID along with your health and financial data, Inclusive Digital ID for a Resilient Recovery from COVID-19: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT–6owU2NA Let me translate: Your vaccinated status has expired. No 5th booster? No access to your money. What does that remind us of? All of this is very quickly leading to the one world government (aka. The Great Reset), and the mark and worship of the beast. Not difficult to see at all. It was always about the “vaccine.”

    Reply

    • Reuben,

      Merely based on anecdotal evidence, I believe that most people in our circles are anti-vaccine. So I believe that a majority of our people would be with you. It would be easy to say what you’re saying in our circles. You are convinced you are right. The main two statistics I hear from you are (1) the percentage of people dying who contract Covid — you say .3%, and (2) number of people who have died from the vaccine — 50,000 and probably more. I don’t believe your statistics. That doesn’t mean I believe all the other statistics. If I were in charge, I would not lock down, I would not mandate.

      Because you do believe your statistics, people who write what Thomas wrote, “Why I Got the Vaccine,” are killing people, even if they are just ignorant lemmings following the cabal. Thomas gives arguments why he got the vaccine. He’s just a mind-numbed lemming, but people such as him should not be near a keyboard to type these dangerous opinions, so someone is responsible and so this might not be a liberty. There is no scriptural liberty to kill people and he is killing people. This kind of talk from either side does not allow the liberty even for a discussion. If I say, transgender is a sin, and a transgender goes and kills himself, I caused it. If a pro-vaccine side is even mentioned, that is killing people, so it’s a sin to kill. It’s that clear, it seems, to Reuben and maybe Tim Dunkin. Would you shut down pro-vaccine talk if you were in authority and you could make people do things?

      On the idea of the vaccine equaling something like the mark of the beast, I understand some of the thoughts behind that. Our heads are not in the sand.
      When someone gets a cell phone or internet hook-up or a credit card, he is already volunteering for big whatever — government, tech — to track and trail and possibly control. The doctor has my medical on their computers. I get that the Antichrist will use the mark to control who buys and sells. I understand, don’t tread on me thinking that opposes mandates. It’s a bad argument that taking the vaccine is supporting the antichrist. I don’t want to write a post showing why. Since the pandemic started, I have flown all over the country, preached in our churches, gone door-to-door, gathered for our church services. It hasn’t stopped me at all. I don’t even feel any pressure at all not to do what I should do or even what I want to do. The Boris Johnson clip isn’t news. Everyone can know about that. Johnson is better than the previous administration. If he’s replaced by someone further left, that won’t be good. He is a politician. He is making decisions that he thinks will keep him in office, that he doesn’t personally believe in. Churches do this too. They disobey the scripture to keep their congregation, which pays their salaries. Steve Pettit is trying to save BJU by moving evangelical so that the faculty and staff are paid.

      I am not part of the cabal. I’m truly not convinced by you, Reuben. It is not inarguable. It is arguable. I think your statistics are suspect. I don’t believe them. If I was in charge of the government, I would do something closer to DeSantis in Florida, leave things open. Mitigate like Florida has. Those people who do not want to get vaccinated, I would not vilify them. It’s a choice. I get the argument that we haven’t had long to look at the long term effects. I’m not in this business. I haven’t studied how we approached polio, smallpox, and rubella. I choose not to do that.

      The left has been the enemy of pharmaceuticals historically. They don’t like anyone making a profit. Big Eva didn’t come from the right, that’s a leftist term. I’m not a corporatist. I think it’s just corruption overall, where, yes, lobbyists, money in politics, etc. Overall though, I talk to many doctors and they take the vaccine. People have got their people, sure. They might just be against mandates. They as a whole don’t want to be forced to take a vaccination. They might be anti-Covid 19 vax. Thomas received a letter from a PhD nutrition and microbiology, older man, who is a professor as well, in England, a Christian, who agreed with his conspiracy paper. Thomas didn’t send it to him. He found it. He’s angry at people like Reuben, and maybe Tim.

      It’s sad that someone like Thomas could be castigated for this. I listen to both sides. I mainly hear from the Reuben side by far. I still got the death shot. My parents got it. My wife has not got it. She got Covid-19 severe. Her mom died from it. Her brother came very close to dying from it. Very. As close as someone can get to dying. He is relatively young and healthy. Her dad got it severe. My parents haven’t got it. I haven’t. My wife has not got the shot. I’m not offended. I haven’t told her to get it. This is a liberty issue. I don’t read Reuben as allowing liberty on this issue. I think this issue becomes exaggerated in its importance because of the heat. Being livid at Boris Johnson. There are far worse things to get angry about.

      The Reubens of this world should be able to say what they think. I wouldn’t church discipline even though I don’t believe him. I’m open to being convinced.

      Reply

33. Hi Reuben,

    I’m glad you don’t think it is a separating issue, although why what you call “genocide” isn’t separating seems unusual. You did not specifically address what I said, but I think 99.9% of IFB churches would separate over genocide, and even the Southern Baptist Convention would expel a church from its convention that supports genocide. So that you would separate over your anti-vax stance was a reasonable deduction from what you wrote, although I’m glad you don’t make that deduction.

    Thanks for the complements on other topics.

    There are major problems with your arguments, from claiming that I have not looked into both sides of this issue–false, I’ve probably spent too much time looking into the conspiratorial side of it–to claiming COVID vaccines are “never studied or trialed … untested,” false both from many public trials and from the simple fact that I have a relative who volunteered for and was (and is) part of one of the vaccine trials, to incredible logical problems if one simply thinks critically about what you have said, and the list could go on and on, but the main problem is how you are evaluating information.

    Scripture teaches to consider the best arguments on both sides of an issue; failing to do so is shame and folly. I have asked over and over again for what you have read that are the best arguments against the positions you have taken, and why the best arguments against them fail. You have never provided even one critical source, much less shown why critical sources that make arguments against your allegations fail. I neither have the time, nor would I be helping you, were I to waste hours and hours going through a gazillion videos and other sources you provided to do your homework for you, while, neglecting to follow Biblical principles of evaluating information, you find two gazillion more videos that support your confirmation bias. Before telling anyone that any of those links is reliable, you need to first have evaluated the best arguments against what they said, and you need to be able to show why the best arguments fail.

    The basic tests in this series of posts can easily be passed for a real genocide, like the one by Hitler or the one by the Turks against the Armenians. Arguments like Steven Anderson’s against the Holocaust ever happening can be easily refuted by looking at the best arguments on both sides. So when I ask, over and over again, for why the best arguments against your claims of genocide fail, and I never get critical sources and why those critical sources fail, but even more allegations, more videos (when this series said skip the videos and go for clearly documented written sources) slanderous statements about my character, etc. it doesn’t look good for your position. I can find people on the Internet who say that COVID comes from space aliens. Practically anything can sound convincing if one only listens to one side of the case.

    Thanks.

    Reply

34. Hi Thomas,

    I think you misunderstood me, or maybe more accurately, keep putting words into my mouth. There are at least three positions concerning church discipline and the “vaccine,” in my estimation:

    1) First, the position of getting the death shot (for whatever reason: coercion, believing the lies, simple-mindness, because you care more for travelling than your own body and life, etc) but don’t actually promote it. If you take the shot and keep that to yourself and don’t encourage others to take it, then there could be liberty. I’m still thinking this through biblically but this is the position I have been taking — probably not much longer though. That’s the position I was speaking of before concerning liberty. I believe their “may” be freedom here since the Bible “might be” largely silent on taking medicine injections, even if they are a great risk to health and life, due to the issue of ignorance. But not entirely sure. Ignorance is only bliss to a degree. This position would be applicable to actual vaccines, ones we could actually scientifically consider to be a vaccine, certainly not the spike protein inflammatory injection. That is what I meant, but you don’t fall under this umbrella since you are actively and publicly promoting the death shot. You can’t plead ignorance.

    However, I digress on whether there truly is liberty in taking a vaccine, especially this one, which isn’t actually one by any stretch of the imagination (Nothing about it meets the requirements for a vaccine). Application of scripture might remove the liberty we have in intentionally receiving injections into our bodies containing living organisms that can and very often do make us sick, for a hypothetical disease (with a 99.7% chance of survival) that we don’t actually have, since our “body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own” (1 Cor 6:19). Normally medicine is given to treat a condition, something I do on a regular basis, not actually bring forth a condition. That whole concept is extremely paradoxical and contrary to the Hippocratic oath and also contrary to scripture most importantly. A further issue is that of tempting the Lord. Should I expect the Lord to protect me while I engage in this foolishness, in taking an extremely risky injection, one that’s never been clinically proven, for a disease I don’t have? That is tempting the Lord God, which is disobedience (Jn 14:23-24) and even demonic activity (Matt 4:6-7). There is no liberty in disobedience or diabolical activity Thomas. The other issue that compounds the problem is why would someone take the death shot? Where is the discernment? Where is the prudence?

    So the jury’s out whether the death shot is actually a liberty issue. I can see why and how people force scripture into an approving these injections, namely the issue of liberty, but I’m not sure it’s actually true to Scripture rightly divided. Many arguments made for it are simply proof texting of Scripture or worst, twisting of Scripture.

    2) I believe you fall under this one. You are actively promoting it publicly, unrepentantly and proudly I would add in spite of the oceans of evidence, but are not purposely (as far I can tell), desiring for people to die. Based upon what I have read, you are encouraging people to take the shot but not to take it so that their lives can be ended, a form of euthanasia (the owners and pushers of this “vaccine” are all zealous promoters of euthanasia and depopulating the earth, which on its own is a massive red flag), or that their lives are so debilitated that their lives are shortened with serious health issues affecting their heart, brain, neurological system, etc, or the fetus of a woman can die in the womb, a form of murder, and so much more. I think you are doing what you think is best, because you believe the lies of MSM&M and have completely closed your ears and eyes to the actual truth of what is happening. Willfully you are ignorant, ignoring the incredible amounts of proof that you reject as “conspiracy theory,” while continuing to publicly promote the death shot based on lies. That is a very serious issue, a church discipline issue and it doesn’t exempt you from potentially being held accountable to the Nuremberg Code (https://corona-ausschuss.de/en/documents/). I know, this will be a moment of ridicule for you—I’ll be expecting it, but we know from history, those that were publicly lying and deceiving people about the medical experimentations taking place during WWII, were put to death under the Nuremberg Code. Truth doesn’t discriminate.

    3) The last position is those that are actively pushing the death shot because they know it will kill people or maim them. These are the henchmen behind the genocide or active participants. Yes this is a Genocide, hundreds of thousands of people (more accurately, probably millions) have been killed with the toxic spike protein gene modifying therapy, and millions of patients have been allowed to die due to being denied and refused the cure for the virus and then tens of millions have suffered serious adverse reactions (ironically most of this is occurring within western nations, many other countries reject the death shot and promote the actual cure for covid). But you are using that as a straw man again. These people are evil. Not only should these be church disciplined but also held accountable under the Nuremberg Code, the end result being the death penalty.

    Thats why I didn’t consider the “genocide” to be a separating issue, unless you fall under number 2 or 3 which isn’t many people. Most people fall under no. 1. But I explained that previously, albeit briefly, yet you found a way to misconstrue my words and create a new position. Its a straw man, followed by ad hominem, a common form of argumentation for you. You should repent of bearing false witness, which happens to also the position you take on the death shot side. Instead of believing facts and truth, you believe lies. It is a genocide unarguably (not only in the active killing of people through the death shot, but also in denying extremely effective medical treatment for covid, resulting in millions of deaths), but that doesn’t mean people are promoting a genocide when they take the death shot. What a ridiculous argument. Unless of course you are actually promoting the genocide under false pretences Thomas? I sure hope not. The basic tests of the “VACCINE” does pass as a medical genocide, and God forbid you be actively promoting it.

    Practically every so-called “conspiracy theory” has been proven to be true. It was said to always be about the “vaccine,” and they screamed “conspiracy theory”; and now we know that to be true. The Chinese virus was claimed to be made in a lab and intentionally released, and they screamed “conspiracy theory”; and now we know that is exactly what occurred. The “vaccine” is coming, and they screamed “conspiracy theory”; and so it did. The “vaccine” was patented months before the release of the manufactured virus, and they screamed “conspiracy theory”; and now we know that is precisely what occurred. A “vaccine” would be mandated, forced upon people or they would lose their freedom, and they screamed “conspiracy theory”; and so it happened. A “vaccine” would kill people by the masses, and they screamed “conspiracy theory”; and so it has and continues to. Treatment would be discovered that cures covid, and they screamed “conspiracy theory;” and for quite some time now we have known it actually cures covid (merely examining the massive clinical studies of Argentina and India alone, and ye shall see — I presently use this treatment). The anti-vaxxers claimed the “vaccine” is a pathway to the plot to microchip the world, and they screamed “conspiracy theory;” and now we see its beginnings with many reports of this already occurring, in Sweden, UK, and other countries, and noted in the previous post with IMF, the World Bank and Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, and then we also have Klaus Scwaab saying a few years ago that by 2026 the world would be microchipped. The list goes on. But these are all “conspiracy theories” to you Thomas even though they have already been proven to be true (besides the whole world being microchipped, but that is coming soon). You should wake up and get on the right side of truth. The mark of the beast and seven year tribulation is right around the bend.

    Who is critical of my position? Right, people that blindly follow the lying MSM&M. So now I need to believe their critical analysis when I already reject their general dishonest and false narratives, those that they keep making in spite of the actual facts and truth? Since when does someone have to first examine what the other side has to say about their position when they already know their position to be true? Do they keep looking to see whether someone somewhere with a few credentials has “proven” the truth to be untrue? Thomas, is truth relative? It surely becomes relative in such a convoluted disaster. The “fact checkers” are “right” even though they are incredibly biased with vested narrative such as monetary or position incentives and in spite of many times proven to be lying. And so because Thomas says, I need to deny the plain and crystal clear facts and data literally by the millions posted from around the world with all that is occurring, many by important experts in the field, and proven, facts that don’t lie and perfectly reflect the truth of what I am seeing in front of my own eyes and those of my colleagues, and rather go see the “fact checkers” to see if my position is actually true?! Because they don’t meet your criteria and results Dr. Ross and that of MSM&M? How many times does truth have to be proven true for it to be truly true in your confused world Thomas? If I applied the same reasoning to my line of work, I would never stop doing research. Thats all I would ever be doing. In the end, I also would be a convoluted mess. Do I need to continue looking for some gainsayer to tell me that my truth is wrong, when its already been proven right? If I don’t know whether something is true or not, of course I examine it thoroughly. If I find something to be true indeed, I don’t keep examining it to see if it actually might be false instead. What an utterly ridiculous concept. Imagine if someone approached the Bible with that sort of philosophy! Your position is false. Period. I know because I have examined it. Everyday. Practically everything you deem as “conspiracy theory” is actually truth. You are calling good evil and evil good.

    I have “consider[ed] the best arguments on both sides of an issue” and it’s clear as day that the MSM&M are blatant liars and keeping the truth from the public. They have also prevented many clinical studies and statistics to be published. That is occurring daily. Thankfully vast majority of people are knowing this already, they know what is going on because they see it everywhere around them (they don’t need some “scientific study” published by MSM&M to tell them they are wrong because the facts are living proof) in spite of the evil motivations of MSM&M hiding and censoring. Why don’t you show me which “arguments” have failed that I have made. Don’t make a claim that something is a “conspiracy theory” when it’s only your biased and deceived beliefs that are getting in the way of clear facts. Do you deny the VAERS database and the European database and the UK database, all of which are actual government websites (they are actually forced to run these blessed databases, so the government make it extremely difficult, time consuming and even threatening, resulting in only a small percentage actually doing it, never mind the financial and ideological vested interest in the narrative by many through the “vaccine” companies…I know because I have been there)? Have you looked at the millions of people that have been permanently damaged by the death shot? Or the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, that have died? These are very clear facts and they are substantiated by the innumerable reports and studies in the links that I have posted.

    There have been ZERO clinics studies done on the “vaccine.” Either you’re relative is dishonest or doesn’t know what he or she is talking about. NO studies were ever done on the experimental death shot. That information is easily found. Even in the video from Oct 29, 2019, two months before the plandemic was enacted, Dr Death and his band of death doctors speak about bringing out a vaccine that wouldn’t have to go through any clinical trials, no approval, in the event of say, some avian virus would come out of China. Wow, that must be a “conspiracy theory.” You are the experiment Thomas and everyone else that got the shot, just like Nazi Germany. Like I’ve said before, I have heard both sides (obviously, working in medicine) but mountains of evidence prevent me from denying the very clear and unambiguous facts of the evil happenings of this full fledged Genocide. That is the default position taken by one actually interested in facts and truth. If I don’t love myself or my work or liars more than truth or people or freedom, or life, then I stand on the anti-covid “vaccine” side. You should stand there as well.

    If you had “looked into both sides of this issue” then you wouldn’t be promoting the death shot Thomas. That is almost certain. Since you have been injected with the death shot, then you exercise biased behaviour towards the “looking” that you do on this side. You certainly wouldn’t be looking at cold hard facts that I have posted. But I believe the only thing you looked at on the opposing side is those criticizing and slandering this side as anti-vaxxers. That fits your narrative here. Did you watch the videos I posted? Have you looked at all the solid links? You seem to have a serious dislike towards the truth and facts of what is occurring with the death shot Thomas. Why? Because you took the death shot? Because you are afraid of the truth? Because of pride? Too busy embracing the lying MSM&M? There must be a reason and “science” based upon lies doesn’t cut it. The “main problem is how you are [denying] information” Thomas. Put a brick through your TV Thomas and your computer. Stop believing liars. Look at the tons of proof I have shared previously (and I have much more yet) and don’t be afraid of the truth. It can set you free from the terribly bondage of MSM&M. Denying the truth and constructing logical fallacies and promoting liars (MSM&M) to support your position doesn’t help your cause. Love rejoiceth in the truth (1 Cor 13). Wheres the love Tom? Do you actually “love thy neighbour as thyself,” the second of greatest commandments? If you do, then stop promoting the death shot!

    Reply

35. Hi Thomas,

    Your relative who was in one of the clinical trials for the vaccines, did they say what the scope of the trial was?

    The reason I ask is because the question of the trialing of these vaxxes is a bit more nuanced than “never been tested vs. thoroughly tested.” It is true that there has been some clinical testing performed on these vaxxes. So, it isn’t actually correct for Reuben to assert that they are *completely* untested and don’t have *any* testing.

    However. *dramatic hand gesture*

    Reuben is functionally correct in that these vaxxes have NOT been tested adequately, nor are they “safe and effective” as has been claimed (those two terms actually have specific meaning in the industry that go beyond the layman dictionary definitions). In point of fact, there has been no long term safety or efficacy testing performed (there couldn’t have been since they haven’t been around long enough). We’ve now got some short term efficacy data from vaxxed individuals which indicates that the vaxxes quickly lose efficacy and essentially don’t provide any mitigation after around five months or so, which is why they’re now talking about people getting perpetual boosters every four months. Of course, all of that data *should* have been collected prior to these vaxxes ever hitting the market but wasn’t. Pre-release trialing essentially lasted about three weeks to a month, which obviously missed the drop off. Of course, the validity of the clinical trialing data wasn’t helped any by the fact that both Pfizer and Moderna managed to invalidate their data in exactly the same way, by giving the vaxx to their control groups halfway through (who are only suppposed to receive placebo).

    Which is, in itself, rather suspicious and might almost lead one to believe some sort of…I don’t know…conspiracy theory?…about the matter.

    But even more troublesome is the genuine lack of any real data about the safety of these vaccines. We simply don’t *know* what the mRNA technology will do to people in two, five, ten years. We can’t know because nobody bothered to exercise the responsibility to perform the clinical trialing to find out. While there might have been more of a case that could be made for expediting vaxxes through the process to “save lives” if these were a more proven technology involving dead/attenuated live virus (since we already know a lot about how those work in the field), there really isn’t that justification here.

    And sadly, it’s beginning to show. As was pointed out, over 10,000 vaccine-related deaths have already been recorded in VAERS, and due to the nature of that data set, this is almost assuredly a gross undercount. One individual I know in the relevant field has told me via private communication that it’s likely closer to 50,000. Then, there’s the issue of severe vaccine-related adverse events that don’t rise to the level of death, such as heart inflammation, strokes, heart attacks, palsies, blood clotting, etc. (including some events already being observed in children under 12, who have only very recently started receiving the vaxxes). Have we asked ourselves why it seems like *all of a sudden* healthy young people who get vaccinated are developing various heart issues at much higher rates than was ever previously seen? Why is there a rash of heart attacks, pulmonary embolisms, and myocarditis in young professional athletes that only began after their leagues started mandating vaccination? I’m sorry, but I do not believe in coincidences.

    The fact is these vaccines were not tested to the standards that are *mandated* by the FDA before bringing a new drug to market. If a company under regular circumstances were seeing the issues with a new drug application that are being seen with these vaxxes, the project would be canceled. And sure, while *most* people who get vaxxed don’t see immediate problems, the fact remains that statistically, the problems manifest at a far higher rate than the usually gun shy FDA would have ever allowed prior to the political fast-tracking of these vaxxes. I was talking about this with a guy one time and he said, “What’s the problem? These things only happen about 1 out of 10,000 times.” I replied by reminding him that vaxxes that get approved the proper way tend to have major adverse effects more on the level of 1 out of 1,000,000 times, or two orders of magnitude less prevalent.

    There is (rightly) a very rigourous set of processes that have been put into place for bringing new drugs to market, which was not followed with these vaccines. That alone would give me pause, even if we weren’t collectively also talking about vaxx passes, chipping peoples’ hands before they can buy or sell, canceling people from society for not getting their poke, etc.

    Reply

36. Thanks, Reuben, for letting me know that I should not only be placed under church discipline for encouraging people to save their lives and the lives of others by getting vaccinated for COVID (unless it violates their consciences, for it is a liberty issue) but I should also potentially be put to death like World War II war criminals. Round up the doctors in the Christian Medical Association and kill them all! Probably my relative who is part of the clinical trials that never happened should be killed as well, along with (at least) 97% of the US Senate (the other 3% aren’t discouraging vaccination, so they should be killed too, probably) Trump, Biden, Pence, Harris, just about every governor in every state, none of whom are making the genocide claims you are falsely making, and the large majority of whom are strongly encouraging people to get vaccinated (although the Republicans are almost all saying there should be no government coercion while more Democrats are open to coercion).

    I think we are done with this discussion. It’s a good example of the kind of shame and folly that comes from only looking at one side of an argument, though, so it validates the Bible as true, again.

    I wonder if your pastor and church agree with you publicly making statements about putting the huge percentages of Bible-believing Baptists who encourage COVID vaccination to death, as well as huge percentages of others Christians and the rest of the general population.

    Dear Tim,

    What are the strongest arguments you have read against the arguments you are now making, and why do you believe the arguments against it fail? Have you read (for example) anything on the Science Based Medicine blog on how anti-vax arguments distort VAERS data and mRNA technology, or, even better, what refutations of actual specific studies by prestigious medical journals on Pub Med have you read, and why do you find the refutations better than the case made in the journal articles you read?

    I’m not going to provide any more details about my relative, especially with someone commenting on here that I deserve to be put to death. I have had many death threats before from Muslims for politely offering them gospel literature, had death threats from sodomites for politely offering them eternal salvation at their “Pride” festivals, had death threats at work from evil and crazy people in the security industry, but this is probably the first time I have had a professing Baptist say that I deserve to be put to death, so I guess it’s a kind of special milestone in categories of people who rebel against God and want the saints of God dead.

    Reply

37. Clarification–I work in the security industry, and the death threats were from people we needed to help to “move on.”

    Reply

38. Hi Thomas,

    I didn’t ask for information about your relative, I asked for information concerning the scope of the clinical trial your relative participated in.

    Probably the strongest arguments in favour of the pro-vaxx position are the studies and media reports originating from official sources, though the strength of their arguments comes from their status *as* official sources.

    Which particular study would you like for me to “refute”? I mean, you talk about “considering information from both sides” yet don’t seem to be aware that there are numerous studies, etc. which conflict with “official” sources on vaxx related topics across the board. But please, pick a particular topic and let’s discuss it and bring out the sources on both sides. I’d like this because there is a lot of misinformation that comes from “official” sources, things which are called “conspiracy theories” but which are, in fact, absolutely true.

    I’m sorry, but most of what we see from “official” sources, both in the relevant scientific establishment as well as in the media, I do not believe to be put forward in good faith. The reason for this is because there is a lot that has been said that contradicts well-established scientific knowledge. One example is the claim that natural immunity derived from having Covid is inferior to immunity derived from the vaccines. That is not true and contradicts most of what we actually know about natural vs. vaccine-derived immunity, especially wrt that derived from mRNA technology. Indeed, I’d like to talk about the science *directly* even more than second-hand via packaged information from blogs.

    Concerning Science Based Medicine (and yes, I’m aware of that site), I do have to say that I’m a bit surprised to see a Baptist preacher appealing to a site that openly promotes atheism, among other things. Do you also support transgenderism and abortion on the basis of material you’ve read on SBS?

    Reply

39. Dear Tim,

    Here is one of many:

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33301246/

    Please explain specifically, with evidence that would stand up in a court of law, that the specific doctors are lying, how all these people:

    From Fundacion INFANT (F.P.P.) and iTrials-Hospital Militar Central (G.P.M.), Buenos Aires; State University of New York, Upstate Medical University, Syracuse (S.J.T.), and Vaccine Research and Development, Pfizer, Pearl River (J.A., A.G., K.A.S., K.K., W.V.K., D.C., P.R.D., K.U.J., W.C.G.) – both in New York; Vaccine Research and Development, Pfizer, Hurley, United Kingdom (N.K., S.L., R.B.); Vaccine Research and Development (J.L.P., P.L.) and Worldwide Safety, Safety Surveillance and Risk Management (S.M.), Pfizer, Collegeville, PA; Associação Obras Sociais Irmã Dulce and Oswaldo Cruz Foundation, Bahia (E.D.M.), and Centro Paulista de Investigação Clinica, São Paulo (C.Z.) – both in Brazil; Global Product Development, Pfizer, Peapack, NJ (S.R.); Cincinnati Children’s Hospital, Cincinnati (R.W.F.); Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, Baltimore (L.L.H.); BioNTech, Mainz (ÖT., U.Ş.), and Medizentrum Essen Borbeck, Essen (A.S.) – both in Germany; Tiervlei Trial Centre, Karl Bremer Hospital, Cape Town, South Africa (H.N.); Hacettepe University, Ankara, Turkey (S.Ü.); and Worldwide Safety, Safety Surveillance and Risk Management, Pfizer, Groton, CT (D.B.T.).

    are conspiring on it without the truth getting out, or what other clear proof that they are lying, manipulating data, etc. when they say the study shows 95% effectiveness of the vaccine for the specific purpose in the trial. Of course, we need proven, written documentation, not allegations from someone in a video.

    Here is one on misuse of VAERS:

    https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking-health/dont-fall-vaers-scare-tactic

    and here is a readable and accessible one with specific anti-vaxers misuse of VAERS:

    https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/as-2021-shambles-to-a-close-the-misuse-of-vaers-by-antivaxxers-continues-apace/

    If you could, say, point out 10 documented, provable factual errors in each of the articles above and how those documented, proven errors, backed by evidence like double-blind trials, show that they are lying in those specific articles, that would be great.

    The Science Based Medicine blog is about medicine and being skeptical. Of course, many people who are skeptical about conspiracy theories are also atheists because they are (wrongly) skeptical about God and about the miraculous. We should be aware of that bias, just like we should be aware of bias by conspiratorial sources, but while it does take a miracle for the resurrection of Christ to take place, and there is good reason to think that miracle happened, if it takes a miracle for a conspiratorial claim to be true we had better be really sure that the miracle happened. Also, I don’t deny Einstein’s theories of relativity because Einstein rejected Christianity, but recognize that they are the best current explanations of lots and lots of facts in physics. If a higher percentage of people who write on the Science Based Medicine blog are atheists than in the general population, or if Christian doctors or other theists are excluded from their articles–and I am assuming you have proof that they are, and will share it–doesn’t mean the site has no useful stuff on medicine, and it is easier to comprehend for people without advanced medical knowledge than the New England Journal of Medicine.

    After dealing with those, it should only take a few minutes to explain the sources you already looked at before making your initial claims. Before you publicly made the claim here that over 10,000 vaccine-related deaths have come from the COVID vaccine, what sources skeptical of that claim did you yourself read before you published it here, and why did you conclude that those sources you read first were not making valid arguments? That should be no new work since you presumably already did that research before publishing this claim of the deaths as true.

    Thanks.

    Reply

40. I would like to give you and Kent kudos for not censoring me yet, unlike what social media, big tech, MSM&M are doing to everyone that is opposing the lies and presenting the real facts and truth about what is actually happening. But maybe that will come to an end shortly. Why? Well it shouldn’t be for promoting the truth to help save lives but maybe for being so “harsh” and “personally attacking” Thomas. Sharply reproving someone for promoting evil is not “harsh” or personally attacking” anyone. Its just being Biblical, and I don’t play man-centred flattering games, especially not when someone is promoting a death shot that is killing the millions. Practically everyone today that stands on the side of truth, on the side of being anti-vaxx, is censored, cancelled, fired, ejected, slandered, and the Lord only knows what else. (Wouldn’t that be enough of a red flag to tell you things are not what they appear to be?) The truth should never be censored, not even when it creates wounds. Many people are going lock step into the genocide without knowing better. All have a right to know the truth. And those promoting deadly injections should be sharply reproved at the very least. But number 1 or 2 should be occurring, if we are applying Scripture faithfully. People that publicly promote the death shot should be separated from till such a time they repent and remove every single article.

    There you go again Thomas. Everyone should be killed because that is what I said right. Number 3 Thomas. You have an answer for everything even though its mostly lies spread by MSM&M, but you also specialize in logical fallacies. It is a Genocide and I am very thankful that God has given me the discernment to know better and not be involved in it, and I’m thankful that there are laws like the Nuremberg code that are established to keep people in check and not make irrational and evil decisions and publicly promote genocidal behaviour. (I won’t hold my breath though that justice will be done, because of the worldwide flood of the mystery of iniquity and men of reprobate minds in our present evil world). No. 3 is the reason why they put some of the people to death post-WWII. That included media. God is no respecter of persons. Nor should we. Baptist or Christian or President or whatever, makes no difference when someone advocates for and publicly promotes an injection that has been proven innumerable times over that it comes with a high likelihood of death or serious injury—yes that is evil and precisely inline with what the Nuremberg Code. (Side note: I appreciated Candace Owens trying to talk some sense into the lies President Trump was communicating in her recent interview with him, but he is wilfully and purposefully blind to the truth, bragging up his actions for bringing the death shot to the world — “men shall be lovers of their selves,” I would hate to be in his shoes). It’s also very unBiblical, unloving and uncaring. It should unbeknownst to someone that professes Jesus to be his Lord and Saviour and thus professes to have spiritual discernment. Where’s the discernment of the “spirit of error”? Or of the “abominable lies”? Or of the ocean full of lies, bribes, censorship, false narratives, etc, occurring on every hand today (here is just one example of thousands that could be given: https://www.dailywire.com/news/wa-state-high-school-bribes-students-says-getting-covid-vaccine-will-count-toward-community-service-requirements). Since when does health need a bribe or an incentive? This sort of thing is occurring absolutely everywhere, many countries paying out cash for taking the death shot. Unbelievable, yet you believe the lies. Zero discernment. But this is only one of the tons of problems and evil occurring with the death shot.

    You have deceived yourself in believing you are “encouraging people to save their lives and the lives of others by getting vaccinated for COVID.” In fact, you are doing the very opposite. Yes the very opposite. You are encouraging people to take a death shot that could easily end their life or injure it permanently, and then you also attempt to lie about the truth. When you encourage people to take the death shot, that might include a pregnant woman, maybe injuring her or killing her, or even her baby, who has a greater than 80% chance of dying in-utero. Almost 3,400 babies have died in utero (that we know of) due to the death shot Thomas in America alone, but that number might be undercounted by a factor of 31 at best, but possibly up to 100. Do the math Thomas. This year, the number of still births in hospitals in Canada has increased thirty-fold, and in many cases 100% of the mothers received the death shot while pregnant. Remember these things the next time you promote the deadly injection. Remember that as one that allegedly opposes abortion, but has no qualms about killing fetuses by other means (such as a deadly injection that allegedly prevents you from getting a bad cold, a coronavirus, that has a 99.7% chance of survival, which it actually doesn’t, so you need to keep taking more shots, which still don’t work, so effectively a 0% efficacy rate). Please remember that, and I do hope it affects your sleep. No one should be sleeping that is promoting the murder of unborn babies. Ignorance can’t be pleaded since you’ve been told the truth, but the bible does speak of the reprobate mind that continually rejects the truth. Instead of repenting of this life-changing grievous error, you proudly and arrogantly continue on your path, rejecting the plain truth. But not only that, you mock, scorn and scoff at the truth, and go on a meandering to some ungodly blog to help validate your red herring that the database must somehow be distorted by anti-vaxxers. Those databases are official government reports. That is really unbelievable. Your entire manner of “scientific proof” is really a process of validating your personal beliefs stemming from a sad personal decision that you made some time ago. That leads to turning a blind eye to the actual real-life and crystal clear facts, from the truth to a position of embracing the lies and deceptions of MSM&M. That becomes more evident as time goes on.

    The databases for vaccine adverse reactions are dead on accurate, though they are massively underreported.

    VAERS Database as of yesterday: 983,756 reports of injury to VAERS, 20,622 reports of death, 34,615 permanent disabilities, 107,860 required urgent care, 3,365 miscarriages (i.e. murdered babies due to the death shot), 12,317 Bell’s palsy, etc, following coronavirus vaccinations. Here you can see a breakdown of the deaths: https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?EVENTS=on&PAGENO=1&PERPAGE=10&ESORT&REVERSESORT&VAX=%28COVID19%29&VAXTYPES=%28COVID-19%29&DIED=Yes&fbclid=IwAR2rBWzmzUUh-5eWc3N4gp6PV3aEnpIyzAX0Oazu32g8hzrPHqKfVmflV1M. In spite of the hugely increased number of vaccinations, all-cause mortality is higher in 2021 than in 2020, the number of COVID-19 deaths are higher in 2021 than in 2020, and new coronavirus cases in the U.S. just reached a record high. In other words the “vaccine” doesn’t help. It’s not only unhelpful, it could easily put you in the grave prematurely or destroy your health permanently.

    Reported by WND, Dec 15: Columbia study: True U.S. COVID vaccine death count is 400,000! (https://www.wnd.com/2021/12/4968311/). Here is that study: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/355581860_COVID_vaccination_and_age-stratified_all-cause_mortality_risk On this WND page, there is a survey done with the question: “Is the U.S. government deliberately lying about COVID vaccine deaths to hide the catastrophic numbers?” 99% answered yes. Yes, that is absolutely correct and praise God majority people see the truth. It’s very sad and concerning when professing Christians don’t.

    European Database as of 15th of Dec: 34,337 Deaths 3,120,439 Injuries Following COVID Shots in European Database. 1,470,537 of these were serious injuries (https://healthimpactnews.com/2021/34337-deaths-3120439-injuries-following-covid-shots-in-european-database-as-uk-public-data-show-35-deaths-213-hospitalizations-among-booster-triple-vaccinated/). If you keep scrolling down on this page, you will see many personal accounts of death and destruction. You can see more here as well: https://vernoncoleman.org/articles/how-many-people-are-vaccines-killing (this site by the way has massive amounts of data available to show what is happening with this evil injection and the censoring of the truth and hiding it from the general public).

    UK Database as of 15th of Dec: 411,594 reports of injuries, 1,354,228 reactions and 1,889 reports of deaths (https://yellowcard.ukcolumn.org/yellow-card-reports).

    As mentioned before, these numbers above are only 1-10% accurate, mostly due to massive underreporting, but who knows what else is going on behind the scenes of the biggest scandal to ever hit the earth. If 100 people died, any drug or vaccine should be and probably would be immediately pulled from use and carefully investigated. Less than 50 had to die before the polio vaccine was reluctantly pulled. Yet not only has that not happened, nothing has been investigated and the truth has been hidden, censored and maligned, while the “vaccines” genocidal march marches on. How utterly and despicably wicked!

    You’re right, simplemindedness does validate the Bible as true. Embracing a spirit of error over a spirit of truth validates the Bible as true. Your acceptance of lies and evil in the form of promoting a genocidal injection, also validates the Bible as true. Trusting in lost men and making flesh your arm, also validates the Bible as true. Lying about someone not looking at both sides, a person that actually works in medicine unlike you, also validates the Bible as true.

    You should love the truth as much as refuting the truth Thomas. You appear to welcome anything that opposes the clear truth of reporting databases, or doctors and nurses working in hospitals and seeing first hand what is happening (yes anecdotal is critical today because of the hiding and censoring of the truth, and true facts are not anecdotal by the way when they are verified to be true) or the huge numbers of doctors and other medical professionals whistleblowing all over the world, including some of the highest experts in this field, or many other well proven facts. You find someone somewhere that will agree with you, and then run with it to prove what I am saying is untrue, even though some of this info comes from official unbiased report. You completely ignore the massive amount of lying happening in our present world, especially by those in MSM&M, so that you may continue to promote the lie you have embraced. And good point by Tim, you appeal to a site that promotes atheism, transgenderism and murderous abortions, so that you can show that the databases are being distorted. Do you now agree with those evils as well Thomas? You use this sort of argument as a straw man so commonly, its sickening, but now its coming home to roost on your own head. You proof text “science” but you really should love the truth and repent, and then you can be freed from the bondage you are in.

    You should urgently and truly repent with godly sorrow of these abominable sins, which is not loving God, and for not loving your neighbour by encouraging an injection that has killed hundreds of thousands of neighbours, if not millions, injured tens of millions, and has dramatically changed the lives of so many and not for good either; and even further, for disparaging the use of the cure for covid (which has also led to millions dying unnecessarily). This is certainly no minor matter. So Thomas, “I wonder if your pastor and church agree with you publicly making statements” that advocate for a death shot that has put “percentages of others Christians” and “of the general population” into serious injury or even death, including the murder of unborn babies? Does he agree with you promoting something that has been proven to cause death or injury in the millions, that has destroyed the lives of tens of millions of people all over the world, who might now never be saved through the new birth due to this mass genocide but rather spend eternity in the unquenchable torments of hell? How are things going to pan out for you before the judgement seat of Christ?

    Reply

41. Reuben,

    I did a search on this page for “personally attacking” and “personal attack” since you put those in quotes. They came up four times, all by you, and yet they were in quotes as if someone had said them and you were quoting them. Who were you quoting? You put them in quotation marks. No one said those words.

    I actually told everyone no more posts like you last wrote. I said we could write about the liberty issue only. That isn’t censorship. I published your comment against what I had already said about not publishing anything more except for a final answer from Thomas. You haven’t followed those instructions. And then I went ahead and published you, because you think you’re censored if I don’t. Do you really think that’s censorship?

    There is a certain point where we’re just repeating ourselves and it becomes more ad hominem. You do not keep it civil, but you explain that you’re justified because of the outcome. Do you think the outcome justifies how you talk to people? Why I don’t like publishing what you’re writing is not because of what you write, but because of how you write it. Those who disagree with you on a non-scriptural issue, you don’t talk to civilly. It’s not being tough. I don’t mind tough. It’s more than that.

    We’re not on the side of mandates. People have a choice. You’re able to present your side in a wide enough manner. I don’t think Twitter should ban you, but the free speech issue is also a complicated issue. I’m quite sure you don’t like foul language on twitter and if they banned foul language, would you support it? When I went to WND because of your mentioning them, there were lude pictures of women there in some of their ads. I would like those banned. We don’t allow George Calvas to comment here because of a number of reasons. Is that censorship? He still comments. I just don’t publish.

    You use the word genocide. Genocide is killing a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group. Genocide targets a group. Which national or ethnic group is being killed by people in power? What ethnic group is the genocide being committed on? There are actually quite a few questions like this that I would have for you in your presentation.

    Again, I’m not saying I believe all the statistics on either side, but I don’t believe the ones you cite. I don’t like it when the statistics show bias either way. On the one hand people say Covid kills just a small percentage, but on the other hand, same people publish stats saying that it’s killed far more, they’re under reporting. That’s been in your stats. On the one hand people say people die with Covid, but Covid wasn’t the cause so shouldn’t be allowed in that way, but when VAERS does the same thing, they want to count it as a death. I went to the VAERS site at your urging and read the first page. A person did not die because of the shot. The person got the shot and then died, but the comment from the relative was that the elderly mom was going to die anyway and didn’t die of the shot. However, she got the shot before she died. You can’t criticize one side for doing the same thing the other side is doing.

    I don’t want a lengthy answer from you going over the same material you’ve already hit. Just this comment.

    Reply

42. Dear Tim,

    Bro Brandenburg may want this getting wrapped up (which is also fine with me with other priorities), so please feel free to give a detailed and careful, evidence based response to the questions and articles I supplied to you, and I may give a response, and we will leave it at that. It’s OK if you take your time to give a careful response instead of feeling like you need to say something right away. We can all do better with Proverbs’ instruction about refraining our lips and being wise.

    Reply

43. Reuben,

    I saw your comment you sent to Thomas. You didn’t answer mine. I would like you to answer mine. Thank you.

    Reply

44. Hi,

    I’m turning off the comments for this post.

    Reply