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The Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Saints and Revelation 6:17
Does Revelation 6:17 support, or undermine, a pre-Tribulation Rapture of the saints? We have considered other Rapture positions in relation to passages in the book of Revelation in other posts on this blog. Consider the context:
Rev. 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev. 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev. 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev. 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev. 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev. 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Rev. 6:12 Καὶ εἶδον ὅτε ἤνοιξε τὴν σφραγῖδα τὴν ἕκτην, καὶ ἰδού, σεισμὸς μέγας ἐγένετο, καὶ ὁ ἥλιος ἐγένετο μέλας ὡς σάκκος τρίχινος, καὶ ἡ σελήνη ἐγένετο ὡς αἷμα,
Rev. 6:13 καὶ οἱ ἀστέρες τοῦ οὐρανοῦ ἔπεσαν εἰς τὴν γῆν, ὡς συκῆ βάλλει τοὺς ὀλύνθους αὐτῆς, ὑπὸ μεγάλου ἀνέμου σειομένη.
Rev. 6:14 καὶ οὐρανὸς ἀπεχωρίσθη ὡς βιβλίον εἱλισσόμενον, καὶ πᾶν ὄρος καὶ νῆσος ἐκ τῶν τόπων αὐτῶν ἐκινήθησαν.
Rev. 6:15 καὶ οἱ βασιλεῖς τῆς γῆς, καὶ οἱ μεγιστᾶνες, καὶ οἱ πλούσιοι, καὶ οἱ χιλίαρχοι, καὶ οἱ δυνατοί, καὶ πᾶς δοῦλος καὶ πᾶς ἐλεύθερος, ἔκρυψαν ἑαυτοὺς εἰς τὰ σπήλαια καὶ εἰς τὰς πέτρας τῶν ὀρέων,
Rev. 6:16 καὶ λέγουσι τοῖς ὄρεσι καὶ ταῖς πέτραις, Πέσετε ἐφ’ ἡμᾶς, καὶ κρύψατε ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ προσώπου τοῦ καθημένου ἐπὶ τοῦ θρόνου, καὶ ἀπὸ τῆς ὀργῆς τοῦ ἀρνίου·
Rev. 6:17 ὅτι ἦλθεν ἡ ἡμέρα ἡ μεγάλη τῆς ὀργῆς αὐτοῦ, καὶ τίς δύναται σταθῆναι;
Rapture / Tribulation Views and Revelation 6:17: Wrath “is come” means what?
Some opponents of the pre-Tribulation Rapture argue from Revelation 6:17 that the wrath of God has not started yet; after all, the verse says that the “great day of His wrath” is only come now at this point, and this is the sixth seal. Thus, they would say, God’s wrath does not come with the start of the Tribulation, but only here, with the sixth seal, and so a “pre-wrath” Rapture, or maybe, if this is the midpoint of the Tribulation, a “mid-Trib” Rapture here, or perhaps, if one distorts the sequence of events in the book of Revelation so that the seals, bowls, and vials are not sequential (although they actually are), even a post-Trib Rapture. What do you think?
Note that the verb translated “is come” in Revelation 6:17 is ἦλθεν, a 3rd singular 2nd aorist active indicative of ἔρχομαι, “to come” or “to go.” What would we expect for an aorist in terms of the time of the action? The most common use, at least, is that the action would have started in the past: “Generally, the aorist looks at an action as a whole and does not tell us anything about the precise nature of the action (constative)” (Basics of Biblical Greek, WIlliam Mounce, chapter 22; note that this blog post is an adjusted devotional that I prepared for my Greek students as we were studying chapter 22 on the aorist in Mounce’s grammar). A constative aorist-the most common category for the aorist–would support God’s wrath starting earlier in the chapter, before the sixth seal, namely, at the first seal at which the Tribulation began. However, there is also a rare category called a “proleptic” aorist, which could suggest that the wrath here had not yet started but was only about to begin now; maybe the aorist here is proleptic, leaving room for anti-pre-Tribulation Rapture views?
In response, we should first consider that the constative aorist, the aorist for summary past action, is much more common than a proleptic aorist. The English “whom he justified, them he also glorified” (Romans 8:30) certainly shows that an “-ed” verb in English can be used for something that is yet future, because it is so certain to God, but how often do we speak that way in English, in comparison to using the past tense to describe an event that is actually in the past? Thinking that the aorist here portrays an action that has already started before this point is the natural assumption. To assume that God has not yet started to pour out His wrath in the first five seals (even though things like ¼ of the world’s population dying have already taken place—that is like every single person in North and South America suddenly dropping dead–But is that God’s wrath? Oh no—of course not!) is an unnatural assumption.
We also need to consider who is speaking. Revelation 6:17 is not a statement that God makes; it is not a statement a holy angel makes; it is one the unregenerate earth-dwellers make, the same people who say things like “Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?” (Revelation 13:4). If we concede that wicked and unregenerate mankind now begins to understand that God’s wrath is being poured out, that does not mean that this point is when His wrath actually begins; as those who did not have all their thoughts set on God, they did not see His wrath in the famines, the plagues, the Antichrist, the wars, the death all around—but the first six seals actually already were God’s wrath, although wicked men did not see it.
Revelation 6:17: The “Come” verb in Revelation 6
Note as well an important tie-in with the same verb,erchomai, earlier in the chapter:
.
Rev. 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see
Rev. 6:1 Καὶ εἶδον ὅτε ἤνοιξε τὸ ἀρνίον μίαν ἐκ τῶν σφραγίδων, καὶ ἤκουσα ἑνὸς ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ζώων λέγοντος, ὡς φωνῆς βροντῆς, Ἔρχου καὶ βλέπε.
Rev. 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
Rev. 6:3 Καὶ ὅτε ἤνοιξε τὴν δευτέραν σφραγῖδα, ἤκουσα τοῦ δευτέρου ζώου λέγοντος, Ἔρχου καὶ βλέπε.
Rev. 6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
Rev. 6:5 Καὶ ὅτε ἤνοιξε τὴν τρίτην σφραγῖδα, ἤκουσα τοῦ τρίτου ζώου λέγοντος, Ἔρχου καὶ βλέπε, καὶ εἶδον, καὶ ἰδού, ἵππος μέλας, καὶ ὁ καθήμενος ἐπ’ αὐτῷ ἔχων ζυγὸν ἐν τῇ χειρὶ αὐτοῦ.
Rev. 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
Rev. 6:7 Καὶ ὅτε ἤνοιξε τὴν σφραγῖδα τὴν τετάρτην, ἤκουσα φωνὴν τοῦ τετάρτου ζώου λέγουσαν, Ἔρχου καὶ βλέπε.
Rev. 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Rev. 6:17 ὅτι ἦλθεν ἡ ἡμέρα ἡ μεγάλη τῆς ὀργῆς αὐτοῦ, καὶ τίς δύναται σταθῆναι;
As Christ breaks each of the first four seals we see the living creature or beast say, “come!” And then what happens? A judgment! The Antichrist takes power with the first seal, the rider on the white horse, conquering and to conquer; then the second seal, the wars after the short-lived peace of the Antichrist; then the world-wide famine of the third seal; then the death of 25% of the world’s population in the fourth seal. The fifth seal is obviously different, as we see there the martyred saints crying out for vengeance on the wicked, which God promises them He will enact. And then we have the sixth seal here:
In Revelation 6:17 the expression “the day … has come” is an acknowledgment by all people in the context of the heavenly and earthly disturbances of 6:12–14 and the flight to the mountains and caves in 6:15–16. However, within the literary structure of this unit—the breaking of the seven seals—the “has come” (ēlthen) in the sixth vision is an acknowledgment of the results of the summons to come (erchou), which is repeated four times at the beginning of the series. The summons “come” calls forth elements of the day of the Lord. The declaration “has come” looks back over all these elements and acknowledges what has in fact come to be.[2]
This usage also suits Old Testament Day of the Lord prophecies.
So in Revelation 6:17 even the unregenerate earth-dwellers finally recognize what has been going on since the first seal—the wrath of God poured out upon the earth, wrath which started with the first seal, which comes immediately after the pre-Tribulation Rapture.
We deserve the judgments of the Tribulation for our sins. That is how horrible they are. We deserve the eternal torment in the lake of fire described near the end of Revelation. But the Son of God, by His grace alone, took that very wrath that we deserve upon Himself, suffering and satisfying our infinite debt of sin. By being our blessed sacrificial Lamb He has eternally delivered us from the future wrath of the Lamb on those who reject His glorious sacrifice. For delivering us from the wrath to come, let us say with all the saints: “Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.” (Revelation 5:12-13).
[1] William D. Mounce, Basics of Biblical Greek Grammar. 3d; Accordance electronic ed. (Grand Rapids : Zondervan, 2010), 202.
[2] Craig Blaising, “A Case for the Pretribulation Rapture,” in Three Views on the Rapture: Pretribulation, Prewrath, or Posttribulation, ed. Stanley N. Gundry and Alan Hultberg, Second Edition., Zondervan Counterpoints Series (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2010), 61.
–TDR
A True View of the World: Inside or Outside?
Anthony Kennedy and Casey
In the Supreme Court decision “Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pennsylvania V. Robert P. Casey” in 1992, Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote in his opinion:
At the heart of liberty is the right to define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life.
Is that statement by a Supreme Court justice true? Can someone define his own concept of existence, of meaning? Everyone defines his own meaning? I say “no” to that, but it relates to how anyone obtains an accurate understanding of the world.
Anthony Kennedy wrote that personal preference, which originates from a person’s feelings or opinions, arising from the inside and not the outside, would override objective meaning. Therefore, objective truth contradicted freedom and essentially then America itself. Something is true as long as it corresponds to someone’s desires.
Authenticity and Relativism
Even more so, when truth is your truth, then it’s also authentic. Count that for goodness and beauty too. Stephen Presser writes about Kennedy’s line:
It undoubtedly owes a lot to Freudian psychology, to Rousseau’s notion that civilization places us in chains, and, most of all, to the concept usually associated with Abraham Maslow, “self-actualization.” The core of this philosophy seems to be that each of us has an authentic “self,” and the goal of life ought to be to maximize individual opportunities to express and develop it.
I read someone, who called the statement, “the epitome of relativistic thought.” Obviously, when applied to abortion, to which the Casey law was written, a baby is anything the person feels it to be, who wants the abortion. It is an invader of the mother or just a clump of cells or cancer.
Outside, Not the Inside
Before the 19th century in the United States, almost everyone saw truth as received from the outside, not the inside. God was separate from His creation. Truth, goodness, and beauty, which came from Him, outside of His creation, were transcendent. Hence, people called them the transcendentals.
On the outside was evidence. Revelation is the declaration of God. This is premodernism. Everything starts with God. But even modernism said evidence on the outside was necessary. As Ben Shapiro very often says, “Facts don’t care about your feelings.” Man’s observation falls below revelation though. Modernism assumed that absolutes existed, but their testing came through man’s reasoning.
Predmodern, Modern, Romanticism, Postmodern
Between Christ and the 19th century, this very long period is premodern. Sure, 1500 to 1800 is an early modern period. I don’t want to get into when modernism started. It depends on how you define it. Theological modernism started in the 19th century. That’s the time of the worldview shift reflected also in the Romantic Movement of the 19th century.
Modernism connected truth to man’s experience, his observation. Romanticism moved modernism all the way to the inside, where truth, goodness, and beauty were not longer transcendent, but completely immanent. New religions exploded in the 19th century. Truth lost objectivity. People’s opinion, their feelings, increasingly become more important to decide truth, goodness, and beauty. The movement toward truth is your truth is postmodernism.
God’s Word is the final arbiter of truth, but it isn’t the only one. 1 Timothy 3:15 calls the church the pillar and ground for the truth. Still, however, that’s outside of your opinion, your thinking, and your feelings.
Even modernism depends on man’s thinking or reasoning. This continues to influence even conservatism in the world. Modernists confirm God’s revelation to man’s thinking, what one could call, rationalism. Scripture stands above man’s reasoning, what Peter calls the pure mother’s milk (1 Pet 2:2). It circumvents man’s observation and reasoning, coming directly from God, that is, from the outside. What it says is true, good, and beautiful.
The Purposeful Contortion and Confusion of End Time Truth (Part Two)
No explanation of origins succeeds at explaining how everything got here, including how people got here, except for the biblical one. And the biblical one makes sense, because it fits everything that we see. Evidence also confirms the Bible.
An explosion turning into terrific, complicated design, either physical or biological, just can’t be true. We have no basis for believing that, and people really don’t. They opt for the explanation, but not because it is true. It is convenient for personal autonomy. It’s a method for blocking God out of the psyche.
Naturalistic End Time Belief
On the other end, people invent an ending too. It says, everything will burn out and turn into free floating space junk. The universe will go silent. Despite Star Trek, Star Wars, and any other fictional alien story, no life will exist.
How it ends is some kind of global warming, global freezing, collision of an asteroid, called an “impact event,” a world wide nuclear holocaust, or the spread of a incurable deadly disease that kills everyone (pandemic). The latter probably doesn’t work, because it probably just kills people. Animals of many different varieties survive, running around and doing what animals would do without people here. Perhaps they wait for the inevitable evolution into something closer to people.
The avoidance of end time catastrophe in this naturalistic sense means people doing a better job of not destroying the planet. They do that apparently by adapting. This means the soon end of carbon emissions.
Apocalypse
People call the planet ending catastrophe, “apocalypse.” Those who know the Bible might find this ironic, because that’s the Greek word for the Book of Revelation. Revelation doesn’t provide such an ending as what men call an apocalypse. People don’t even know what the apocalypse of Revelation is.
Apocalypse is Jesus coming back to earth with unveiled glory. He came the first time as Savior and He appears the second time as Judge. People are basically correct in that apocalypse is end time destruction, but it is an angry God judging the world because of sin.
The world’s population doesn’t promote talk about sin. People don’t want to hear about sin. They hate that. People want to hear good news, but not what the Bible says is “good news,” the gospel. Good news to the people of the world would be living however they want without destruction. They despise any warning of destruction that comes because of sin. People revel in the idea that destruction might come because of carbon emissions. No problem there.
Preachers and theologians cooperate with the naturalistic end time viewpoint, the cataclysmic ending of the planet, by confusing and contorting what the Bible says about the end. Their views show very little urgency. The true view of the end is urgent. Many Bible preachers today mock any kind of urgency as kooky, elevating instead their spiritualized, allegorical, and subjective positions. Why not opt for a naturalistic view, if the people who are supposed to know the Bible aren’t themselves clear about how everything ends?
Eschatological Boldness
Christians today are very often afraid to make a statement about naturalistic end time views. They are so unsure about how the world will end that they most often stop telling the world what the Bible says. Professing believers are not really that offended about the naturalistic explanations like climate change. They don’t think Christians should speak in dogmatic fashion about what the Bible says.
Even professing Christians consider biblical end time teaching to be questionable. They diminish it to something on the level of art on the other side of the campus from the engineering department. It can’t be viewed like science. Someone cannot trust the Bible that much, especially for prophecy. As a result, Christians themselves and then especially the world is not prepared for how the world will really end.
The shame felt over eschatological beliefs debilitates Christians. They won’t talk about those beliefs in public. Instead, they leave conversations about the end for very private enclaves of the few like minded. This is not the will of God. God expects boldness on talk of the future. The Bible portrays a clear picture of what to expect for the future.
Christians should unequivocally reject the naturalistic end times explanations. They are repugnant and an offense to God. Naturalistic eschatology capitulates to the world system. What the Bible says about the end is not a mere theological position. It is the truth. Everyone around needs to hear what will really occur in the future. They need a thorough debunking of the modern false views of how the world will end.
Scriptural Authority
People want to live like they want. A major contributing factor eliminates future judgment of God. Satan and his minions attack the teaching of the second coming of Jesus Christ.
Confusion over the second coming, when Jesus comes and judges the world, takes away a major motivation for salvation and personal purity. If people don’t think Jesus is coming, they can or might live however they want. They don’t consider the consequences of their sin.
Christians with boldness must stand on the teaching of creation and of the end of the earth. They must embrace what scripture teaches. Satan told Eve in the Garden of Eden, “Thou shalt not surely die.” The capitulation to the world on the end times offers a similar lie to the people of the world. They miss the blessing (Revelation 1:3) of an important warning of their dire future without Jesus Christ.
Is God Not Being Obvious Enough, Proof That There Is No God?
I’m not saying that God isn’t obvious, but that is a major reason in what I’ve read and heard of and for professing atheism and agnosticism. It’s also something I’ve thought about myself. God doesn’t go around announcing Himself in the ways people think He would if He existed. God doesn’t show Himself in a manner that people expect.
Outside of earth’s atmosphere, space does not befriend life. Space combats, resists, or repels life, everywhere but on planet earth. No proof exists of any life beyond what is on earth. Scientists have not found another planet that they know could support life, even if life could occur somewhere else.
No one knows the immensity of space. We can see that all of space is very big, and of course exponentially times larger than the square footage of earth. Incalculable numbers of very hot and large suns or stars are shining upon uninhabited planets. Numbers beyond our comprehension of astronomical objects fly on trajectories and in paths everywhere in space. That is a very, very large amount of space with nothing alive and apparently serving very little to no purpose. To many, they seem pointless and could not serve as depictions of God’s beauty and power and precision for such a tiny audience.
Another angle I hear relates to suffering. God doesn’t show up to alleviate suffering to the extent people expect from a loving God. Suffering comes in many different fashions, not just disease but also crime and war. The periods of clear direct intervention from God to stop suffering are few and far between and long ago. Essentially the Bible documents those events and circumstances, which are not normative for today.
According to scripture, God is a Spirit (John 4:24), which means you can’t see Him. John 1:18 and 1 John 4:12 say, “No man hath seen God at any time.” One reason God isn’t obvious is that no one can see Him. That does not mean He doesn’t reveal Himself, but it is not by appearing to us. In human flesh, Jesus revealed God to us (John 1:18). 1 Samuel 3:21 says, “the LORD revealed himself.” Romans 1:19 says, “Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.”
God reveals Himself now through providence in history, creation, conscience, and in scripture. Those are not obvious to most people. They want, what I like to call, the crown performance. The King or Queen sit and someone comes to entertain in their presence. People want more from God, but God doesn’t give that. God deserves the crown performance. He wears the crown. He doesn’t give the crown performances.
Seek God
I believe there are four main reasons God isn’t as obvious as people want Him to be. One, God wants to be sought after. I often say that God doesn’t want the acknowledgement of His existence like we would acknowledge the existence of our right foot. Five times scripture says, “Seek God,” twenty-seven times, “seek the Lord,” twice, “seek his face,” and thirteen times, “seek him,” speaking of God. A good example of God’s desire here is Deuteronomy 4:29:
But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
Believe God
Hebrews 11:1, Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.Hebrews 11:7, By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.Hebrews 11:13, These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Men Rebel
God’s Glory
What Does “Led By or Of the Spirit” Mean?
If you are a professing Christian, you have heard such a sentence as, “I was led by the Spirit.” I’ve heard it in the form of a question, “Are you led of the Spirit of God?” It can be put in the negative, “He isn’t led of the Spirit,” very often speaking of a believer, implying that some believers are led of the Spirit and others are not.
Romans 8:14, For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.Galatians 5:18, But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
In the preceding context Paul discovers to us our inherent sin in all its festering rottenness. But he discovers to us also the Spirit of God as dwelling in us and forming the principle of a new life. It is by the presence of the Spirit within us alone that the bondage in which we are by nature held to sin is broken; that we are emancipated from sin and are no longer debtors to live according to the flesh. This new principle of life reveals itself in our consciousness as a power claiming regulative influence over our actions; leading us, in a word, into holiness.
When we consider this Divine work within our souls with reference to the end of the whole process we call it sanctification; when we consider it with reference to the process itself, as we struggle on day by day in the somewhat devious and always thorny pathway of life, we call it spiritual leading. Thus the “leading of the Holy Spirit” is revealed to us as simply a synonym for sanctification when looked at from the point of view of the pathway itself, through which we are led by the Spirit as we more and more advance toward that conformity to the image of His Son, which God has placed before us as our great goal.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
LDS Visions or Revelations a Consideration for Their Danger as a Source of Authority for Everyone Else, Including Baptists
The visions or revelations of Joseph Smith came about in America at a time in this country when many others were receiving their own visions or revelations, paving the way for Smith’s and the acceptance of his by others. The United States was a land of equality, equal opportunity, and populism. It despised a king and state religion. It liked, loved really, democratic society, where everyone’s voice was heard, and it was, therefore, acceptable to get your own personal revelation from God as a part of your personal relationship with God. That spirit is still very alive in America. Americans distrust their own institutions and this is woven into the fabric of being an American. That includes the institution of the church.
In early nineteenth century, especially on the frontier, people operated in many unconventional ways, depending on superstitions in medicine, farming, and predicting the weather. It was not unusual to use dowsing to find water with a special, forked stick. People could see signs everywhere, giving them guidance from above or within. Snake oil salesman got their name in this era, literally selling snake oil, promising cures to almost anything, circumventing the conventional manner of tending to one’s health.
Joseph Smith was 14 years of age when he had his first vision or revelation from God, and the Smiths, Joseph Smith Sr. and mom, Lucy, weren’t members of a church. Joseph Jr. didn’t come up with the idea of getting visions. It was a thing to have. Only special people had them.
The Smiths couldn’t find a church they liked or agreed with, were still looking, and then Joseph ‘heard from God’ that there was no true church to join. Convenient. Churches have set beliefs and if you are a rank and file non-clergy, you might disagree, your opinion probably doesn’t count for much, and you don’t have a means of having your own in those situations. You might not want the church doctrines and practices imposed on you and also their financial obligations. You want a church where perhaps everyone could share, like is seen in the first church in Jerusalem in Acts chapters 2 and 5. That’s what churches should do, accept your way and then take care of you with little expectation.
On top of everything above, even though there was freedom, it was tough to navigate the new world, especially if you were not born into wealth, grinding it out to earn a living. Many made it through subsistence farming, sometimes succeeding, perhaps enough to invest in a cockamamie get-rich-quick scheme, lose everything and start over again. People still are very allured by the suggestion of some easier path to success, willing to subject themselves to whatever comes along that promises to work better, reinventing the wheel.
Joseph Smith lived in an environment, a culture, that someone could believe that God was talking to him directly. All of the new, astounding doctrines and practices of LDS came by this manner, contradicting doctrines and practices hitherto already established in the history of Christianity: the preexistence of human souls or spirits, God was once a man on another planet before being exalted to Godhood, celestial marriage, polygamy, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not the same being, God organized the world but did not create it from nothing, and proxy baptism for dead people. It was also revealed to him through a story that all of these beliefs were the original truth that had been lost and buried for 1400 years. On many occasions, Joseph Smith and then other Mormon leaders received revelations at a time that fit whatever it was they needed to hear from God to make a pronouncement to deal with that situation.
Matthew Bowman writes in The Mormon People: The Making of an American Faith (pp. 10-12):
The Smiths had unwittingly moved into an ideal location for a family with unresolved spiritual yearnings, the center of what one historian has called “the antebellum spiritual hothouse” and another “the burned-over district.” . . . . The optimism, instability, and freedom of the New York frontier were life’s blood to the eclecticism and experimentation always to be found at the margins of mainstream Christianity. The Shakers, for instance, so named for their physical worship services, had fled to America from a disapproving Britain under the leadership of Ann Lee, whom they believe to be Christ reincarnated. In the United States, they found fertile ground for both converts and settlement, and in 1826 they established a colony less than thirty miles from Palmyra. . . . North of Albany, the farmer William Miller sat by the fire in his home in Low Hampton, New York, feverishly working out the precise date of the Second Coming from the book of Daniel for his thousands of followers, who were convinced that they needed no trained pastors to interpret scripture for them.
But the Smiths had always been drawn — particularly Lucy — not to such visionaries but to the more mainstream ecstasies of evangelical revivalism. The force behind revivalism was the Methodists, who . . . urged potential converts to embrace Christ in a personal divine encounter. At Methodist camp meetings, itinerant preachers, though frequently uneducated and even unlettered, learned how to muse the Holy Spirit among their listeners. Between rousing and sometimes raucous gospel hymns, they offered not prepared sermon on doctrinal topics but emotional appeals, promising forgiveness, warning of hell, reaching their hands to the heavens, and pleading with the crowd to leave sin behind and walk forward to be saved in the arms of Christ. . . . “Men are so spiritually sluggish,” declared Charles Grandison Finney, the great revivalist of the age, “that they must be so excited that they will break over their countervailing influences before they will obey God.” Finney’s talents shone in a month-long revival in 1830-31 in Rochester, a few miles from Palmyra, in which he converted hundreds. . . .
The sort of spiritual manifestations the Smith family had already experienced were not new to most revivalists. Portentous dreams were common particularly among itinerant Methodist preachers, as were the type of healings and providential manifestations Lucy had experienced. . . .
It was in this atmosphere that Joseph Jr., then a young teenager, began thinking about religion.
The ecstasies and visions of revivalism were the seedbed or hothouse for Joseph Smith and the new religion. What makes this acceptable? Some might say, because what they revealed was not false. I don’t know that they can say, that what they’re saying is in fact true. How do you know it’s true, if it is? Someone could say, it’s scriptural. Well, then you don’t need a vision or a revelation from God. It’s already in the Bible. If cannot be proven to be false, then it is an acceptable vision or revelation.
If someone can hear revelations from God, how do those differentiate from scripture? If they are from God, that is equal to scripture. One cannot accept visions and revelations as from God. That opens up Pandora’s box. It’s not acceptable. And yet it is today. You really can’t question it. You’ve got to accept whatever version of it. How does a LDS today distinguish evangelical visions from their LDS ones? It really just buttresses the point of Mormon visions and revelations, that God is still talking to men. He’s still talking to Mormons.
LDS do not have a kind of closed canon of scripture. They have their continued visions, their continued revelations, even if they don’t like the LDS teachings, which many LDS has a problem with, and with their prophets. What has pushed LDS along is their continued revelations. I had a long talk last Saturday to an LDS man, coming out of the garage of his big house, a CEO of a small software company, and he disconnects from LDS doctrine, but he’s got his own testimony, his own experience, his own way of connecting with God, so he can pick and choose. LDS is fine with that. They encourage it. They might call it “the burning in the bosom.” Before Joseph Smith got his first vision, he prayed James 1:5, and that’s become the pattern of LDS since then.
I estimate that a majority of Baptists still get direct messages from God. They call it different things, but these impressions are authoritative, nonetheless, very often for some of the major decisions of their lives. When they give testimony to the important decisions, they don’t say, it was scriptural, my church was fine with it, so I had the liberty to do it, so I did. They say, I knew, God told me. Sometimes God also told the spouse, as a validation. Both knew. Both heard.
The one who questions the experience is the one who says he’s in authority, he’s a king, taking away from the egalitarian nature of receiving visions. Some kind of exegesis of an authoritative book is not sufficient for a genuine Christian experience. Obviously there are contradictions, because many have been excommunicated for contradicting the vision of someone in authority, Smith or Brigham Young. The acceptance of a democratic community fine with your receiving your vision or revelation is the level playing field. Revelations aren’t just for the elite few, but for anyone. This is the “antebellum spiritual hothouse” that we still live in.
Pre or Post Tribulation Rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4 and Revelation 20? Part 2 of 2
In part one of this series, I mentioned that I was discussing last things–eschatology–with someone who strongly asserted that 1 Thessalonians 4 and Revelation 20 refuted the pre-Tribulation Rapture position. He argued that 1 Thessalonians states that the dead in Christ shall rise first, and then the Rapture takes place, but the first resurrection, when the dead in Christ rise, takes place in Revelation 20 at the end of the Tribulation period; a post-Tribulation Rapture. Therefore, he concluded, the pre-Tribulation Rapture position was false. We looked at 1 Thessalonians last week. We will look at Revelation 20 now. Does Revelation 20 teach a post-Tribulation Rapture?
Rev. 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev. 20:6 μακάριος καὶ ἅγιος ὁ ἔχων μέρος ἐν τῇ ἀναστάσει τῇ πρώτῃ· ἐπὶ τούτων ὁ θάνατος ὁ δεύτερος οὐκ ἔχει ἐξουσίαν, ἀλλ’ ἔσονται ἱερεῖς τοῦ Θεοῦ καὶ τοῦ Χριστοῦ, καὶ βασιλεύσουσι μετ’ αὐτοῦ χίλια ἔτη.
Pre or Post Tribulation Rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4 and Revelation 20? Part 1 of 2
Recently I was discussing last things–eschatology–with someone who strongly asserted that 1 Thessalonians 4 and Revelation 20 refuted the pre-Tribulation Rapture position. He argued that 1 Thessalonians states that the dead in Christ shall rise first, and then the Rapture takes place, but the first resurrection, when the dead in Christ rise, takes place in Revelation 20 at the end of the Tribulation period; a post-Tribulation Rapture. Therefore, he concluded, the pre-Tribulation Rapture position was false.
Some reasons 1 Thessalonians teaches a pre-Trib Rapture are covered in part one below. In part 2, next week, Lord willing, we will look at Revelation 20.
1Th. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th. 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th. 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1Th. 4:16 ὅτι αὐτὸς ὁ Κύριος ἐν κελεύσματι, ἐν φωνῇ ἀρχαγγέλου, καὶ ἐν σάλπιγγι Θεοῦ καταβήσεται ἀπ’ οὐρανοῦ, καὶ οἱ νεκροὶ ἐν Χριστῷ ἀναστήσονται πρῶτον·
1Th. 4:17 ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες, οἱ περιλειπόμενοι, ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ Κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτω πάντοτε σὺν Κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα.
1Th. 4:18 ὥστε παρακαλεῖτε ἀλλήλους ἐν τοῖς λόγοις τούτοις.
1Th. 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th. 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th. 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
1Th. 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.1Th. 5:8 ἡμεῖς δέ, ἡμέρας ὄντες, νήφωμεν, ἐνδυσάμενοι θώρακα πίστεως καὶ ἀγάπης, καὶ περικεφαλαίαν, ἐλπίδα σωτηρίας.
1Th. 5:9 ὅτι οὐκ ἔθετο ἡμᾶς ὁ Θεὸς εἰς ὀργήν, ἀλλ’ εἰς περιποίησιν σωτηρίας διὰ τοῦ Κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ,
1Th. 5:10 τοῦ ἀποθανόντος ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν, ἵνα, εἴτε γρηγορῶμεν εἴτε καθεύδωμεν, ἅμα σὺν αὐτῷ ζήσωμεν.
1Th. 5:11 διὸ παρακαλεῖτε ἀλλήλους, καὶ οἰκοδομεῖτε εἷς τὸν ἕνα, καθὼς καὶ ποιεῖτε.
Luke 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.Luke 21:23 οὐαὶ δὲ ταῖς ἐν γαστρὶ ἐχούσαις καὶ ταῖς θηλαζούσαις ἐν ἐκείναις ταῖς ἡμέραις· ἔσται γὰρ ἀνάγκη μεγάλη ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς, καὶ ὀργὴ ἐν τῷ λαῷ τούτῳ.Rev. 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev. 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?Rev. 6:16 καὶ λέγουσι τοῖς ὄρεσι καὶ ταῖς πέτραις, Πέσετε ἐφ’ ἡμᾶς, καὶ κρύψατε ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ προσώπου τοῦ καθημένου ἐπὶ τοῦ θρόνου, καὶ ἀπὸ τῆς ὀργῆς τοῦ ἀρνίου·
Rev. 6:17 ὅτι ἦλθεν ἡ ἡμέρα ἡ μεγάλη τῆς ὀργῆς αὐτοῦ, καὶ τίς δύναται σταθῆναι;
Rev. 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.Rev. 11:18 καὶ τὰ ἔθνη ὠργίσθησαν, καὶ ἦλθεν ἡ ὀργή σου, καὶ ὁ καιρὸς τῶν νεκρῶν κριθῆναι, καὶ δοῦναι τὸν μισθὸν τοῖς δούλοις σου τοῖς προφήταις καὶ τοῖς ἁγίοις καὶ τοῖς φοβουμένοις τὸ ὄνομά σου, τοῖς μικροῖς καὶ τοῖς μεγάλοις, καὶ διαφθεῖραι τοὺς διαφθείροντας τὴν γῆν.Rev. 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.Rev. 16:19 καὶ ἐγένετο ἡ πόλις ἡ μεγάλη εἰς τρία μέρη, καὶ αἱ πόλεις τῶν ἐθνῶν ἔπεσον· καὶ Βαβυλὼν ἡ μεγάλη ἐμνήσθη ἐνώπιον τοῦ Θεοῦ, δοῦναι αὐτῇ τὸ ποτήριον τοῦ οἴνου τοῦ θυμοῦ τῆς ὀργῆς αὐτοῦ.
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